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10-30-2006, 06:39 PM
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#1
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 372
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Bush's Real Legacy
Years after Iraq is history and regardless of the outcome, John Roberts and Sam Alito are going to be deciding cases that impact our lives and the lives of our children. Could this be Bush's real legacy? And if he gets one more?
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10-30-2006, 06:53 PM
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#2
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
Years after Iraq is history and regardless of the outcome, John Roberts and Sam Alito are going to be deciding cases that impact our lives and the lives of our children. Could this be Bush's real legacy? And if he gets one more?
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Wishful thinking - Bush will go down as a complete failure that ran the country into a ditch.
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10-30-2006, 06:58 PM
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#3
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 512
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
Wishful thinking - Bush will go down as a complete failure that ran the country into a ditch.
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Well, if that's the case (and I'm not sure it is), then it will have taken Bush 8 years to do what Carter managed to do in only 4!
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10-30-2006, 07:18 PM
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#4
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,337
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
I've said it before and I'll say it again now. Presidents can not be effectively evaluated for at least 50 years. Since people are living longer, the time may stretch to 75 years.
FDR is going to remain a highly rated president. Unfortunately, the dem elite are working on sainthood status for him. I've seen people that have questioned his tax proposals, attempt to stack the Supreme Court and other issues be effectively belittled and attacked for mearly questioning any decision or program of the "greatest American president that ever lived."
Carter as a one term president and his failure to rise to the challenges of his only term don't bode well for him into the future. The attacks on Bush II are premature and seem to be "rants" at this point. I would certainly have wished other decisions to be made than what I've seen but I didn't run for president.
I agree that Supreme Court appointments are usually the longest lasting legacy of most presidents. They don't always turn out as hoped (by the appointing president). Burger was appointed by Nixon. If for no other reason than Roe v. Wade, the conservatives were very disappointed.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
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10-30-2006, 07:18 PM
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#5
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gone traveling
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,146
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
No bush ran us into the ditch well before 2004.
The day we attacked Iraq is the turning point for me. While bin laden and al zwahiri remain free.
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10-30-2006, 09:16 PM
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#6
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,375
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Bushe's legacy...hmmm. How about: Sometimes you go forth with the lame excuses you have rather than the solid achievements you wish for.
__________________
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need.
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10-30-2006, 09:33 PM
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#7
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,203
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
As one says... legacy is strange...
Take Nixon... the only president that resigned in disgrace (Clinton just could not do it.. wasn't ashamed I guess...) but now looked on as a 'good' president..
I just don't see it...
He put in price controls, had a strange gas policy that created the gas crisis... inflation was out of control... but, he opened China..
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10-30-2006, 10:21 PM
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#8
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 372
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B
I've said it before and I'll say it again now. Presidents can not be effectively evaluated for at least 50 years. Since people are living longer, the time may stretch to 75 years.
FDR is going to remain a highly rated president. Unfortunately, the dem elite are working on sainthood status for him. I've seen people that have questioned his tax proposals, attempt to stack the Supreme Court and other issues be effectively belittled and attacked for mearly questioning any decision or program of the "greatest American president that ever lived."
Carter as a one term president and his failure to rise to the challenges of his only term don't bode well for him into the future. The attacks on Bush II are premature and seem to be "rants" at this point. I would certainly have wished other decisions to be made than what I've seen but I didn't run for president.
I agree that Supreme Court appointments are usually the longest lasting legacy of most presidents. They don't always turn out as hoped (by the appointing president). Burger was appointed by Nixon. If for no other reason than Roe v. Wade, the conservatives were very disappointed.
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50 - 75 Years - My goodness - Clinton's quest to rewrite his legacy is a bigger job than he anticipated. Think about it, in 50 years his legacy is going to be 75 years old. And when people see Monica at 75 (not going to be a pretty sight) and ask "Bill did what with her?," all that legacy building will be for nothing.
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10-30-2006, 11:10 PM
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#9
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B
I've said it before and I'll say it again now. Presidents can not be effectively evaluated for at least 50 years. Since people are living longer, the time may stretch to 75 years.
. . .
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You can say this as many times as you want. I don't believe this at all. A President can do all the right things and have everything counteracted by another administration that follows them in 4, 8, 12, ... years. 50 years? . . . that is 7x infinity in political time constants today. In contrast, a President can do everything wrong but have his/her administration followed by an effective administration that eliminates the long term damage they might have done.
As far as GWB goes, you can delude yourself into believing that history may be kind to him . . . but losing an unjustified war with questionable goals is not a good start. Driving the deficit to historic world record levels is not a good start. Supporting the torture of prisoners is not a good start. Somehow it is hard for me to see how making speeches in favor of god and guns or opposing gays is going to allow historians to consider this man as a good President.
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10-30-2006, 11:13 PM
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#10
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud
Take Nixon... the only president that resigned in disgrace . . . but now looked on as a 'good' president..
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By who? The man was a crook. Everyone I know (even knee-jerk Republicans) still consider him an embarrasment.
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10-30-2006, 11:18 PM
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#11
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
What a strange thread. All these diehard Republicans want to talk about how it is too early to tell whether GWB is really an incompetent charlatan or a great leader, about how Nixon is not a crook like we originally thought but that time has shown him to be a great leader. But these same people also want to declare that Clinton is a complete failure. This, they know already.
Yeah . . . It's Clinton's fault. That's what I always say.
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10-30-2006, 11:42 PM
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#12
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,151
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Everyone I know
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There's that long list of ficticious characters again!
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
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10-30-2006, 11:58 PM
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#13
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mesa
Posts: 3,588
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
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Hi youbet,
There is a different context here than in my previous discussion of your earlier post. The original statement here was, "Take Nixon... the only president that resigned in disgrace (Clinton just could not do it.. wasn't ashamed I guess...) but now looked on as a 'good' president.." This is an unjustified assertion. I first asked who made such an assertion, then admited that my only experience was with people I knew who all believed otherwise. My post was not a justification for a statement I made, but a request for sources.
In the thread that you refer to implicitly, I asked you a specific question about how many people you were basing your broad assertions on. You never answered that question, but instead made additional broad statements about unspecified people.
If you still don't understand the difference, just ask. I will be happy to explain logical analysis to you to whatever level is required for you to grasp the difference.
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10-31-2006, 12:11 AM
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#14
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,151
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
So, who is this "everyone I know" group of folks?
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
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10-31-2006, 02:34 AM
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#15
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 127
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Certainly Supreme Court appointments will carry on a lasting legacy. Personally I will remember him as a God fearing man who did his best.
__________________
If you think nobody cares whether you're alive or dead, try missing a couple of mortgage payments.
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10-31-2006, 02:44 AM
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#16
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 174
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
What a strange thread. All these diehard Republicans want to talk about how it is too early to tell whether GWB is really an incompetent charlatan or a great leader, about how Nixon is not a crook like we originally thought but that time has shown him to be a great leader.
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The perceptions of Nixon and Bush may be relative. I thought that Nixon was an incompetent crook, until Bush came along and set a completely new standard. Now even Nixon doesn't look too bad. But you're right -- it's really all Clinton's fault!
The people who still defend Bush are Republicans in name only, and certainly are not conservatives in any meaningful sense.
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10-31-2006, 03:23 AM
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#17
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 926
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff2006
The people who still defend Bush are Republicans in name only, and certainly are not conservatives in any meaningful sense.
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That's the way I see it.
JG
__________________
Some of us have pretty stories, about good friends, good times and noodle salad.
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10-31-2006, 03:31 AM
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#18
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 926
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Hi youbet,
There is a different context here than in my previous discussion of your earlier post. The original statement here was, "Take Nixon... the only president that resigned in disgrace (Clinton just could not do it.. wasn't ashamed I guess...) but now looked on as a 'good' president.." This is an unjustified assertion. I first asked who made such an assertion, then admited that my only experience was with people I knew who all believed otherwise. My post was not a justification for a statement I made, but a request for sources.
In the thread that you refer to implicitly, I asked you a specific question about how many people you were basing your broad assertions on. You never answered that question, but instead made additional broad statements about unspecified people.
If you still don't understand the difference, just ask. I will be happy to explain logical analysis to you to whatever level is required for you to grasp the difference.
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Semantics, boys. Semantics.
JG
__________________
Some of us have pretty stories, about good friends, good times and noodle salad.
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10-31-2006, 03:41 AM
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#19
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 926
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Somehow it is hard for me to see how making speeches in favor of god and guns or opposing gays is going to allow historians to consider this man as a good President.
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Perhaps not, but some of us like it. In fact, his staking out these positions
is one thing that I still find appealing about the guy. That and his stubborn-
sure of his positions confidence,
which reminds me of someone else I admire very much.
JG
__________________
Some of us have pretty stories, about good friends, good times and noodle salad.
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10-31-2006, 03:52 AM
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#20
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 926
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Re: Bush's Real Legacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc
And when people see Monica at 75 (not going to be a pretty sight) and ask "Bill did what with her?," all that legacy building will be for nothing.
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Monica wasn't really "a pretty sight" at the time IMHO.
JG
__________________
Some of us have pretty stories, about good friends, good times and noodle salad.
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