I Just Want To Live While I’m Alive

Midpack, I understand where you are. DW is frugal (sometimes to a fault). We got here by saving and changing is hard. I am not one to go blow the dough on some whim, but I am trying to get her let loose a little. Ironically, she has not had much of a problem with big items, like a new car, a VRBO in FL for 2-4 weeks. But, the mid price and "cheap stuff" is where she digs her heels in.

So, while I think it is a waste. I am OK with her using FETCH and all the other ways she wants to get "points". Last 2 times we drove to FL I booked the hotel. Instead of her Quality Inn with points, I booked a Fairfield (Marriot) because I have points there (not that I really care about it). The reaction was. OK this is much better (for maybe $20-30 more). So, start small.

I am also fond of telling DW "If we don't spend it, DS will spend it on his dog". While a bit sarcastic (and I am known for that) she does get the point, at least a little.

Regarding the end of life issue, DW has lost 2 friends in the past year to ALS. Both our age or younger. So, I think that was also a bit of a wake up call.

One of the friends was single, and it was miserable to watch. The second had a husband and a bucket list. They spent 2 years doing everything on that list. Being on a float at NOLA Mardi Gras, watching the STL Cardinals play in London, and they bought a trailer to travel to so many parks I lost track. So, at times, we need to remind ourselves how lucky we are to be able to do it without definitive timetable.

I think Bergen did a study that shows discretionary spending drops as we age. You can even choose that spending model in firecalc.

@Alan , long time moderator here, had a signature line about spending while they are able to Go-Go versus since at some point they'd be slow go. (I don't remember the wording).

Dune medical treatment will impact some of our travel this year but we hope to make up for it next year. Need to get our bucket list stuff in now while we're still mobile.

Midpack said:

I wasn’t referring solely to spending more, not really a factor for us - though DW is probably concerned about spending too much. More importantly I meant we need to get out and do things while we’re still physically able - and still alive.

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The premature death of several good friends in their 50s combined with the death of my only sibling in her 50s motivated me to retire as soon as I could line up health insurance. My sixties decade was pretty much smooth sailing. Seventies is looking choppy. One friend has cancer, another has severe rheumatoid arthritis which seems to have come out of nowhere. I’m ok, and planning more travel and family events.

But, I can’t do things I did even as late as my Mid 60s. More accurately, even if I can do them, I will pay too high a price for the next several days. My body says “you can’t do that”, but my pride says “yes you can.” I am learning to listen to my body.

Midpack said:

DW and I are 68 and 70. After a life of LBYM, extending into retirement, I’ve finally come to realize we’ve probably delayed gratification too long and over planned - first world problem. I don’t want to live forever, my parents lived too long at 93 and 96, and the last decade wasn’t enjoyable for either. I think we should travel more now, stay in nicer hotels, eat at nicer restaurants and enjoy ourselves sooner rather than later. [There’s no chance we’ll over react and spend too much, we’re both hard wired otherwise] DW fears death and can’t talk about it, so she plans accordingly - putting life off as if there will always be time later.

Just wondered if anyone else has been able to get this conversation going with a spouse before it’s too late?

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Start the conversation with this: "If we don't spend the money someone else will"

I’m surprised I’ve not seen anyone post that they are satisfied with lifestyle. I’m sure others are. While we take upgraded seats on planes and other spending we never would have and spent a bunch on 3 Viking cruises in 3 years with upgraded cabins, we are satisfied with our lifestyle.
I think talking about living arrangements if needing extra help or care or end of life care is important to discuss, I’m not going to worry about spending what we saved. Heirs will get more than they need and charities will get what is in our TIRA, our spending is enough to satisfy us and more. I’m not trading a worry about having enough to retire for worry about spending what we have. Just saying we have enough to not worry.

Between the 2 of us, I am the frugal one. My husband wants to spend on anything that he fancies, and I am usually the one who pulls the plug on it if it is too much and too often. If he has his wish, we will be getting a new car every couple of years. He loves gadgets and wants everything that is the latest and greatest. But he respects my input when I say "We cannot afford it." We do spend alot as is already. We only fly first/business class, travel alot and eat out everyday.

At 73 my dad is really slowing down with his travel, and mom is on oxygen, so she doesn't travel. Even at 42 my DW and I discuss living now and not overkilling on saving too much while depriving ourselves of a decent life that was earned.

DF has this same problem. Millions banked and continually growing, but not really able to spend what he does have.

For DW and I, our motto is " we're too old and too rich to put up with too much BS"

That includes lack of comfort, convenience or ease. We'll pay.

Midpack said:

I wasn’t referring solely to spending more, not really a factor for us - though DW is probably concerned about spending too much. More importantly I meant we need to get out and do things while we’re still physically able - and still alive.

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Do you ever read books together? That "Die With Zero" book had a pretty good approach to getting out and doing stuff while you still were capable. If you would never read it together on the couch, maybe get the audiobook for the next road trip. It helps to have a common set of words that you both understand in the same way when talking about touchy subjects. Plenty of times I know the same words are not interpreted the same between me and my spouse. But having read something together and chatting about it sometimes helps get us on the same wavelength.

DW and I and 3 other couples have done several trips together that included a lot of hiking. We used to talk about some difficult trails that we wanted to tackle. Now 3 of our group have knee replacements, the others except for me have heart and other issues that prevent them from strenuous hikes. We should have tackled those trails when we were all in good health.

Ronstar said:

DW and I and 3 other couples have done several trips together that included a lot of hiking. We used to talk about some difficult trails that we wanted to tackle. Now 3 of our group have knee replacements, the others except for me have heart and other issues that prevent them from strenuous hikes. We should have tackled those trails when we were all in good health.

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The trick is to find alternatives and keep on enjoying the outdoors and whatever else interest you.

rodi said:

I think Bergen did a study that shows discretionary spending drops as we age. You can even choose that spending model in firecalc.

@Alan , long time moderator here, had a signature line about spending while they are able to Go-Go versus since at some point they'd be slow go. (I don't remember the wording).

Dune medical treatment will impact some of our travel this year but we hope to make up for it next year. Need to get our bucket list stuff in now while we're still mobile.

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I can’t remember the exact wording either but my wife and I have always believed in it.

We have tried to follow that mantra and issues including some health limitations have slowed us down in recent years so we feel fortunate to have made lots of big trips and traveled extensively during our first 10 years of retirement. One of my sisters, 7 years younger than me and still working, died a few days ago at age 62 after a short illness, just another reminder of how quickly things can change.

This post is a great one, and hits home after 2 health scares (one me, one DW). I don't remember where this came from, but it gives a visual of what's behind us and what's in front of us. I did the fill colors just for myself as where I think things will start slowing down.... Dark grey is behind me....


Flieger

Wife and I (both 60) flipped that switch between saving for retirement and spending three years ago, right before I retired.

The month before retirement we were on our annual “honeymoon” trip down in Puerto Vallarta! My sexy bride & I (married 35 years and got to keep it fresh) were hanging on the edge of the infinity pool by the bar at sunset with drink in hand. With three kids launched thru University, no debt, and plenty of passive cash flow to last a lifetime … we discussed travelling more … spending more on a few luxuries … enjoying life more.

The conversation was intense … didn’t even notice others in the pool.

So was it the Tequilla? The sexy wife at my side? Or perhaps the bottle of excellent wine with dinner later that evening that launched us into a different mode? Absolutey!

Ever since that conversation we have been enjoying extended travel adventures together and more of life’s luxuries.

Yes, Chuck, it boils down to ones health, not an age number. I am close to 20 years younger than most of my golf group which are now largely late 70s early 80s. One guy in our group is just driving back from Virginia (live in MO) trip this weekend… So he can then drive to Ozarks for our group golf trip come tomorrow. And this is after he was on a cruise with his wife last month. The guy is either on a trip with wife, or golfing, or hunting almost daily. His lovely wife always says “go have fun” as she is more of a homebody except for the vacation trips she enjoys.
Most of my older group can go things and are capable. But many have lost the desire for trips. Seen enough, been there enough…They enjoy themselves more golfing all the time and eating out.

Alan said:

I can’t remember the exact wording either but my wife and I have always believed in it.

We have tried to follow that mantra and issues including some health limitations have slowed us down in recent years so we feel fortunate to have made lots of big trips and traveled extensively during our first 10 years of retirement. One of my sisters, 7 years younger than me and still working, died a few days ago at age 62 after a short illness, just another reminder of how quickly things can change.

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Sorry for your loss Alan. SIL had a similar situation. Her mom, 91 yo and in decent health, got sick, diagnosed with cancer and died in 2 weeks.

Just as a question, what does not wanting to eat at more expensive places have to do will putting things off or being afraid of death? I see you mention as deeper issue that would cause her pain if you try to discuss it. Well that's something you'll have to think about, as in do I try to force a discussion to see if it leads to a different opinion or do we continue to live as we do presently?

Is it possible that your spouse is simply satisfied with her life and doesn't feel compelled to do fancier, better things?

FindingForward said:

Good thread - I struggle with the right balance. Worried about having enough for long term care later, (since LTC policies are crappy coverage for ridiculous cost), so I hesitate to "overspend" (whatever that means) now.

Yet, it's sad to think I scrimped and saved my entire life, just to make sure I have a slightly nicer nursing home room vs BTD on adventures and pleasures.

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I struggle with the whole LTC dilemma too. Figure I will partially self fund and get a policy that has a real long elimination period in case of a real extended stay. I just can’t come to grips with saving a ton for LTC. Chances are if I am ever there it’s for memory care and I might not realize where the heck I am anyone

Joseph said:

I struggle with the whole LTC dilemma too. Figure I will partially self fund and get a policy that has a real long elimination period in case of a real extended stay.

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Emphasis added.

If you find one please let us know. I looked for one several times over the years and never found one I felt was worth the money.

ivinsfan said:

Just as a question, what does not wanting to eat at more expensive places have to do will putting things off or being afraid of death? I see you mention as deeper issue that would cause her pain if you try to discuss it. Well that's something you'll have to think about, as in do I try to force a discussion to see if it leads to a different opinion or do we continue to live as we do presently?

Is it possible that your spouse is simply satisfied with her life and doesn't feel compelled to do fancier, better things?

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Nope. And I expanded on the question of doing more versus the expense earlier. She sometimes uses expense as a reason not to do things, even though she knows spending more is essentially a non-issue for us.

That was a quick nope..so you feel your spouse says no to things she really wants to do because of costs or does she feel doing some things you want to do aren't worth the money. Only she knows the real reason..money's a tricky subject..but that's not a newsflash. I hope you two can figure things out.

Alan said:

I can’t remember the exact wording either but my wife and I have always believed in it.

We have tried to follow that mantra and issues including some health limitations have slowed us down in recent years so we feel fortunate to have made lots of big trips and traveled extensively during our first 10 years of retirement. One of my sisters, 7 years younger than me and still working, died a few days ago at age 62 after a short illness, just another reminder of how quickly things can change.

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I'm so sorry to read this..my little brother 67 just died from a long ICU struggle that ended in sepsis. It rocks your world,doesn't it?

Wow, this thread really speaks to me. DH and I never made big money. We got to where we are by being frugal…probably more frugal than most of this frugal group. For the past couple of years I’ve realized that if we want to do something now is the time. We are a couple of years older than the OP. I see that we don’t have the energy and stamina that we had 10 years ago.

19 years into full RE and in our late 70's, we also find ourselves in a position where it looks like we'll leave a bunch on the table when we check out. The lesson we've learned is to think about whether we're doing what we want, regardless of cost, or whether we need to change things so we're spending more. We tried some changes a few years back that didn't work out so well. We accomplished the goal of spending more but we had less fun and got less satisfaction than our prior, less expensive routine.

Bottom line for us....... Do what you want to do, what brings you pleasure and satisfaction in life. Try to get past fretting over the possibility of not spending every penny. Don't let an artificial goal of "spending more" drive your decisions regarding how you spend your time.

nwsteve said:

Previously on this board I think, someone introduced the concept of QTR--Quality Time Remaining.
Compute by taking the longest living directly relative's age at death, deduct an allowance for later years in suboptimal status to get personal QTR. For example, oldest relative died at age 95, minus 5 (?) yrs for suboptimal health yield 90 minus age equals QTR. In this example, QTR for a 75 yo is 15 years.
Do the math and pose the query, what are the most important things you want to enjoy for our QTRs?
We live in a CCRC and we regularly witness the QTR realities. Often the future becomes abruptly short.
Personally, no signs of any hip dysfunction and just finished having hip replacement surgery on both sides since Jan. Good news both procedures went well and we can resume agressive travel this fall. (we are 76/76) and figure our QTR is probably 12-15 years at best,

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QTR of 15 years at age 75 is pretty good! and seems a bit ambitious from my life experience. DF needed considerable help traveling at 83 - traveled with children - and didn’t travel after that. Moved to independent somewhat assisted living at 86 because living at home out on the farm became untenable.

So I really don’t expect to be traveling much at all after early 80s. DH is 4.5 years older and in fantastic shape but I can’t imagine him being so active after 85. Maybe he’ll surprise me.