Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

Thank you @Fermion and @explanade for linking that!
Wow, I was thinking maybe an older Leaf after we got the house built. Now we need to hurry up and get retired so we can get started on that.
Edit:
300% FPL
<sad trombone music> We'll never make it, unless we figure out a way to invest the proceeds of this house to defer all the income.
Stupid pension!
/s
 
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I bought a 2022 MY LR -- at the very highest price, natch, and without any rebates. Story of my life.

Since then I've put almost 17k miles on it, including about 6 2000-mile trips. Tires are getting worn but I think I'll get at least 20k out of them, maybe a bit more.

Insurance started out at $1010 per 6 months. 2 years later it's $1301 -- almost 29% increase in 2 years. That's about 13.5% per year. Located in CO.

I just installed v12 2024.14.6 last night, and today I got my free FSD trial. I drove 7 miles to my son's house, and in that short trip I had 2 events that required intervention. (Tried to exit the freeway when a car was coming off the ramp, and FSD basically paced the other car and couldn't get to the exit. I forget the other event.) I'll see how it does during my month trial, but that's not a great start.
 
I just saw a video where the guy said that 12.3.6 introduced a regression affecting lane changing and planning.

Also when first installed I think it sets the FSD aggression mode to "chill". Once you get used to it you might want to change to normal or agressive.

I did not get my FSD trial until a week ago so have not had much highway. I had version 11 for six months last year and that would not plan well to be in the correct lane and was timid fighting its way in.

If you are coming up to a spot where you normally would have gotten into the correct lane earlier, you can give it a lane change hint by using your turn signal.
 
Didn’t notice this regression at all. I drove 12.3.4 extensively and 12.3.6 the last couple of weeks. I’ve stayed in chill the whole time.

On the highway driving I felt like I was looking further ahead than FSD and yes I routinely used the turn signals to position myself in the correct lane ahead of time. Because FSD was taking care of the routine stuff plus the one following the nav instructions (much better than I can), I had way more time to look ahead which was great. FSD sometimes had trouble with short interstate merging on/off lanes, I had to watch it and sometimes be more aggressive. FSD likes to be polite but sometimes there is no time…..
 
Thanks @GaryInCO for the tire wear info; 20k miles is good; when I've asked at the Tesla showroom, they told me between 10k and 30k... I'd just added Collision w/ $2k deductible for $37.50 per month. So new premium is now $824 for 6 months. Starting 6/1 I won't pay the condo HOA anymore, I'll have a huge (at least for me!) increase in my discretionary (+$500 per month). I'm still polishing the house budget vs condo budget, but the house purchase seems like the right choice. You'll probably see the possible condo crisis looming in FL, so I'm glad I've managed to sell it at a great price in just 2 months!
And yes regardless of the car, my car insurance also went up those past couple of years.
@GaryInCO Sorry to hear about $ paid 2 years ago and FSD, today my MY LR AWD purchase price seems fair, maybe next month Tesla will drop it further, who knows? And it will seem bad.
I've tried FSD twice:
1/ Demo MY RWD at Tesla for 1.5 miles in mild traffic. It was flawless
2/ Today in my car in light traffic. It got 'stuck' at a T style intersection where it has to turn R, it pulls on the L lane (:confused:), then a car sneaked on the R side of mine. I took control. There were no risks at all but it felt weird.
 
surfFL said:
Thanks @GaryInCO for the tire wear info; 20k miles is good; when I've asked at the Tesla showroom, they told me between 10k and 30k...
Click to expand...
audrey1 said:
Our tires are still good for a while. We're above 20K miles not quite 2 years.
Click to expand...
30K is the average for Tesla owners, I know of a YTer who reached 40K with his MY. The owners who only get 10-20K are driving their cars aggressively. Teslas have a lot of torque on tap, IF you deploy it often your tires will wear much faster, but that's true of any performance car. Teslas are also a little heavier than comparable ICE vehicles which shortens life, but aggressive driving is far and away the primary determinant, not weight.
 
We have a Model 3 and replaced our tires at 32K with a little tread-life remaining. But, we're not aggressive drivers.
 
Thanks. Other topic. Which program do you use with your Utility company to charge you EV home? In most Florida, we have FPL. But there are 3 programs (AFAIK):
1/ The Residential RS-1 program (most common) with electricity rate at $a per kWh
2/ The Residential Time Of Use program RTR-1 with electricity rate at $p during peak and $op during off peak
3/ The EVolution program where you pay a monthly subscription for a flat fee for unlimited free ($0) Off Peak EV charging with FPL provided Wall Connector (not a NACS connector at time of writing). EVolution is not compatible with TOU and requires a long commitment (penalties if you cancel the program earlier). That's how I think I understand it and can summarize it.

It's a bit complex because 1/ and 2/ have higher rates if you consume more than 1000 kWh / month
Usually p>a>op.

Also if you have solar (I don't) 1/ and 2/ may change (in your favor), I think.

I think it requires:
A/ Personal data on EV monthly kWh consumption based on your mileage, driving habits, etc...
B/ Personal data on your electricity monthly bill (I'm just in the house 2 months, I don't have visibility of the summer bills yet). Can you use / schedule your appliances at night (washer), etc...
C/ An excel spreadsheet with formulas to model all 3 programs with your personal data, to make the best choice.

Has anyone done this?
 
I’ve been getting offers from our current provider but they involve some kind of continuously monitoring app rather than just a time of day price for kWh. We pay so little for charging at home, probably less than $10 most months (no commutes) we’re not interested in the intrusion and inconvenience of an app that does god knows what and likely poorly.
 
surfFL said:
Thanks. Other topic. Which program do you use with your Utility company to charge you EV home? In most Florida, we have FPL. But there are 3 programs (AFAIK):
1/ The Residential RS-1 program (most common) with electricity rate at $a per kWh
2/ The Residential Time Of Use program RTR-1 with electricity rate at $p during peak and $op during off peak
3/ The EVolution program where you pay a monthly subscription for a flat fee for unlimited free ($0) Off Peak EV charging with FPL provided Wall Connector (not a NACS connector at time of writing). EVolution is not compatible with TOU and requires a long commitment (penalties if you cancel the program earlier). That's how I think I understand it and can summarize it.

It's a bit complex because 1/ and 2/ have higher rates if you consume more than 1000 kWh / month
Usually p>a>op.

Also if you have solar (I don't) 1/ and 2/ may change (in your favor), I think.

I think it requires:
A/ Personal data on EV monthly kWh consumption based on your mileage, driving habits, etc...
B/ Personal data on your electricity monthly bill (I'm just in the house 2 months, I don't have visibility of the summer bills yet). Can you use / schedule your appliances at night (washer), etc...
C/ An excel spreadsheet with formulas to model all 3 programs with your personal data, to make the best choice.

Has anyone done this?
Click to expand...

Every utility’s plan will be different. It is important to look over the kWh costs as well as any flat fee costs.

In our case, our utility offers a low cost per kWh plan if you use their EVSE/charger. The flat monthly fee meant it would increase our costs.
If we didn’t already have an EVSE and drove a lot of miles it would have saved money.

Utilities are also trying to figure out the best way to do this, so new plans happen fairly frequently as they dial it in.

Basically, if there is a flat fee aspect, the more you drive the better.

If it is time based, can you reliably charge in those time periods?
 
GM will launch the Equinox EV later this year.

arstechnica.com

The 2024 Chevrolet Equinox EV shows GM can make a car for the masses

GM's latest Ultium-based EV is ready for the road.
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com

At first, the models they have will start around the $44k range but supposedly they will have models starting around $35k before tax credits.

That will be the lowest-priced EV in the GM lineup until the Bolt EV is rebooted some time in the future.

If you want a nicer interior, the Cadillac version of the Equinox EV will be called Optiq and start around $55k.

So this may be a little larger than the Bolt or at least the current Bolt EUV. We will see if they deliver on the 319 miles range on a charge.

This should be pretty competitive even without the tax credit, unless the software problems that Ars witnessed in the road tests are more typical.

In the comments, a lot of people are mainly criticizing that GM has dropped Car Play and Android Auto.
 
explanade said:
GM will launch the Equinox EV later this year.

...At first, the models they have will start around the $44k range but supposedly they will have models starting around $35k before tax credits.

That will be the lowest-priced EV in the GM lineup until the Bolt EV is rebooted some time in the future....
Click to expand...
That sounds encouraging. I hope GM can make it work. The roll-out of the Blazer was disappointing.
 
How about the $25K Jeep?


No much is known, including driving range. I am fearful the $25,000 version will be like the 1976 Chevette Scooter that came without a backseat.

While Tavares stopped short of divulging any further information surrounding this upcoming affordable EV, he did indicate that Jeep will use the expertise of other Stellantis brands — particularly Citroën, which already sells the Citroën e-C3 EV for about 20,000 euros in European and Asian markets. It is very likely that this upcoming, affordable Jeep EV will share parts from these vehicles.

It is pertinent to note that Jeep already sells a relatively affordable EV — the Jeep Avenger EV — in other markets. However, with a price tag of around $38,000, even the Jeep Avenger is way too expensive, and it wouldn't be economically viable for the company to sell the same vehicle for $25,000 in the United States.
Click to expand...
 
I made my first overnight trip in the Model Y, 450+ miles from Michigan to rural Kentucky. I charged 3 times on the way because I was concerned about the charger situation at my destination. It turned out that the CCS adapter that Tesla included worked fine at the Charge Point level 2 charger there. I just made 2 stops on my return. The 250 kw Supercharging is noticeably faster. I was able to use the restroom and or get snacks at a couple of the stops. It was all extremely easy and the chargers were only about 25% utilized.
 
^^ I've made longer and longer trips, working up to really long trips. I gather you don't have Tesla superchargers where they're needed for you. I have used Tesla superchargers exclusively so far, and they have been perfect so far, reliable, charging in 15-25 minutes, no waiting (close once) and decent food & clean restrooms at every one.
 
We bought a Mach-e late last year and have been enjoying it but no long trips as yet. We can charge at Tesla chargers now but don't think we will get much use out of them as we only need to charge at home.
 
DW has a 2023 Bolt which we pretty much charge at home. Very close to us a gas station just put in an EV Connect fast CCS charger and I decided to test it, so connected with apple pay and it went OK, much faster than my level 2 at home but when it ended the plug would not disconnect. I complained and when the manager came out like 10 minutes later it had released but there are some growing pains with many local fast charging systems. Clearly Tesla has the network but its nice to have more charging opportunities, a Tesla next to me did not seem to have the problem I had at this location so maybe its disconnect signal is more familiar to the system.
 
I expect to charge our Model Y exclusively at home, unless we're on a road trip that forces us to use a supercharger. But I am enjoying taking the Tesla on the occasional road trip.
 
I’ve charged at so many different Tesla superchargers on our travels! I wish I’d made a list.

Actually I have the entire charging history available through the app. I’ve been too lazy to comb through it.
 
Midpack said:
^^ I've made longer and longer trips, working up to really long trips. I gather you don't have Tesla superchargers where they're needed for you. I have used Tesla superchargers exclusively so far, and they have been perfect so far, reliable, charging in 15-25 minutes, no waiting (close once) and decent food & clean restrooms at every one.
Click to expand...
My first leg on the return was 170 miles to the first en-route supercharger! It was fine. I am used to passing superchargers every 50 miles or so in my area :)
 
So EV sales didn't grow as fast in the first quarter of this year. That led to a number of price cuts and now sales are blazing for several brands other than Tesla and VW, which are seeing double-digit declines year over year.
Click to expand...

GM's difficulty in ramping up its new family of EVs built around the UItium battery platform has been well-documented. The end of production of the Chevrolet Bolt, which sold for less than $30,000, didn't help; with the little electric hatchback (and the slightly stretched Bolt EUV) no longer contributing to the sales charts, GM's Q1 EV sales fell by 21 percent.

The problems with assembling Ultium cells into battery packs appears to be in GM's past now. Cadillac Lyriqs are starting to become a common sight on the road, and GM CEO Mary Barra told Bloomberg that GM expects to build between 200,000 and 300,000 Ultium-based EVs this year, a huge increase over the 13,838 it managed to ship last year.

Meanwhile, Ford's EV "slump" is nothing of the kind. In May, it sold 91 percent more F-150 Lightnings than last year. E-Transit sales were up 77 percent. And the Mustang Mach-E showed growth of 46 percent. In total, Ford's EV sales for the first five months of this year were up 87.7 percent on 2023, helped no doubt by the company's price cuts.

High double-digit sales growth (in Q1 2024) has also been occurring at Hyundai and Kia (up 56.1 percent), BMW (up 57.8 percent), Rivian (up 58.8 percent), Mercedes (up 66.9 percent), and Toyota (up 85.9 percent).

"As anticipated, Tesla's sales took a hit, influencing the overall market dynamics. However, a few brands saw significant EV sales increases, achieving over 50 percent year-over-year growth," said Stephanie Valdez Streaty, director of industry insights at Cox Automotive.
Click to expand...

arstechnica.com

Tesla may be in trouble, but other EVs are selling just fine

Almost every other automaker is seeing double-digit EV sales growth.
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com

Note that these high sales growth percentages are year over year compared to 2023, which is when the industry sold the most EVs in history.

So 2024 could be an even bigger year for EV sales.

Note also that among the companies which are seeing huge EV sales growth are Ford and GM, which a few months back announced that it would scale back on their EV transition schedule, in favor of more hybrids to their product lineups:

Both Ford and General Motors took the embarrassing step of rolling back their electrification goals, all but admitting they bet on the wrong horse. Instead of turning away from new internal combustion engine products, we're set for a new flurry of hybrids—just don't expect any of them to show up before 2026.
Click to expand...

The funny thing is, neither of their EV lineups are particularly attractive, at least to me.

But that will soon change as Equinox EV is getting a pretty good reception, with also a Cadillac version of the compact SUV or CUV.

Ford thought may have made a mistake committing to hybrids. By 2026, if they're offering new hybrids while they mainly rely on the Mach-E and F-150 as their main EVs, the offering may look stale compared to other companies.
 
Do Teslas have adaptive level 2 charging? I got a message when I plugged my cell phone in one night last week that it will charge at the rate needed to be full by 7 am. I don't even have an alarm set! Anyway it occurs to me that I usually charge my car at 6 to 11.5 kW when the rates drop in the evening. Probably it charges in an hour or two. Would it be better for the car to charge as slowly as possible to hit the am target? Would that be better for the grid?
 
RetMD21 said:
Do Teslas have adaptive level 2 charging? I got a message when I plugged my cell phone in one night last week that it will charge at the rate needed to be full by 7 am. I don't even have an alarm set! Anyway it occurs to me that I usually charge my car at 6 to 11.5 kW when the rates drop in the evening. Probably it charges in an hour or two. Would it be better for the car to charge as slowly as possible to hit the am target? Would that be better for the grid?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can set the car to be charged by a certain time. I haven’t used that myself.

As for the grid, I suspect a slower charge would technically be easier on the grid.
That assumes that you aren’t charging at heavy usage times.

I would suggest that a lower amperage so the car takes longer to charge would be little different.
I charge mine at 20 Amps.
 
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