1875 watt hair dryer plugged into a 15 amp receptacle and circuit - WHAT?

[JoeWras]

I am trying to absorb the idea of 22 circuits for one room.

That's a long way away from the fuse panel in my childhood home that had 8 screw in fuses for the entire home.

"Don't run the toaster at the same time as the blender!" All that frozen concentrated orange juice was mixed by hand, thank you, lest you get the wrath of dad dragging you to the basement to change the fuse.

 

[ERD50]

... We went from 2 circuits to 22 in the kitchen. Circuits were added for the hood fan, garbage disposal, range lights convection fan. I requested many circuits available so we have 12 GFCI circuits in the kitchen now. Have never tripped a breaker since these were installed.

22! Holy Overkill, Batman!

(edit, I see JoeWras beat me to it!)

I counted 8 in the panel for our kitchen. Two for the counters, one each for uWave, Disposal, Dishwasher, refrigerator, lights, counter lights (not sure why that is on it's own?).

If you have electric cooking (we have gas), that would be another 1 or 2 220 circuits. And I could see another 1 or 2 counter circuits if you have a lot of counter space and plug in appliances.

But 22? We have 32 for our whole house. Even if each was just a 15A circuit, that's 330 A, probably more than your service line!

You must have made an electrician very happy!

 

[Route246]

It is a lot but now when you have double duplex outlets, each on their own circuit. The counter surfaces to the left of the range have 2 circuits, right of the range is a long counter with 4 circuits including one around a short corner, 2 circuits to the right of the sink and 2 more circuits to the right of the sink. We have 2 circuits into the floor to ceiling cabinets to the left of the refrigerator which handle Internet and wireless router in one and a printer in another. It sounds like a lot but it is done tastefully and doesn't really look excessive. Sometimes on the weekend we have a waffle iron, Vitamix, oven toaster, slow cooker, hot water pot, bread maker and rice/pressure cooker all plugged in at once. They are not all drawing max current at once but with the old setup this would never have been possible.

 

[marko]

I plug things in.
I turn them on.
If they don't trip the breaker, I'm good.

 

[ERD50]

It is a lot but now (not, I assume?) when you have double duplex outlets, each on their own circuit. The counter surfaces to the left of the range have 2 circuits, right of the range is a long counter with 4 circuits including one around a short corner, 2 circuits to the right of the sink and 2 more circuits to the right of the sink. We have 2 circuits into the floor to ceiling cabinets to the left of the refrigerator which handle Internet and wireless router in one and a printer in another. It sounds like a lot but it is done tastefully and doesn't really look excessive. Sometimes on the weekend we have a waffle iron, Vitamix, oven toaster, slow cooker, hot water pot, bread maker and rice/pressure cooker all plugged in at once. ...

It's still a a lot! Now, I can certainly understand that since you use a lot of countertop devices, and you were remodeling, you wanted to go provide plenty of margin, that makes good sense. But as I said, my kitchen is 8 circuits, including two separate countertop circuits. So you have another 4+2+2+2 ( last two for printer and internet). So even at that it would be 14 circuits. Still a long way from 22!

And I can see the logic of wanting to keep each countertop outlet on a separate circuit. Most kitchens alternate between two circuits, but the user is generally unaware of which ones are common, and might put multiple high current devices on one circuit by chance. With each separate, you avoid that.

It's all good. I'm just still a little shocked (bad pun intended!) at 22 circuits.

 

[JoeWras]

All power too you (ha ha) for adding so many circuits. That's a dream. Just sayin' it is unusual.

It does follow a similar trend of "manifolds" for plumbing fixtures in high end homes.

 

[Route246]

It's still a a lot! Now, I can certainly understand that since you use a lot of countertop devices, and you were remodeling, you wanted to go provide plenty of margin, that makes good sense. But as I said, my kitchen is 8 circuits, including two separate countertop circuits. So you have another 4+2+2+2 ( last two for printer and internet). So even at that it would be 14 circuits. Still a long way from 22!

And I can see the logic of wanting to keep each countertop outlet on a separate circuit. Most kitchens alternate between two circuits, but the user is generally unaware of which ones are common, and might put multiple high current devices on one circuit by chance. With each separate, you avoid that.

It's all good. I'm just still a little shocked (bad pun intended!) at 22 circuits.

It passes the "looks" test in that if someone sees it the number does not look excessive or odd. It looks impressive for those who notice but otherwise even though it is a relatively small kitchen in a typical ranch style house it is visually OK. The cost to add more circuits when the kitchen was gutted and drywall removed was almost free compared to adding later.

Ditto for the number of skylights. We went from zero to 12 skylights, all of them having drywall tunnels and the cost to do them all at once all over the house and in the garage was reasonable. We went from almost no natural light to a whole bunch now. We have blackout shades in the bedroom skylights so there is no light leakage when sleeping. The roofer handled all of the installs on the outside including the retrofits and we saved a lot on that, too, because he was doing the roof for the addition.

 

[ERD50]

It passes the "looks" test in that if someone sees it the number does not look excessive or odd. It looks impressive for those who notice but otherwise even though it is a relatively small kitchen in a typical ranch style house it is visually OK. ...

Hmmm, I think we have had a (for the Led Zep fans) "Communication Breakdown"!

When you say 22 "circuits", I took that to mean 22 feeds from the electrical panel, with 22 circuit breakers. Or do you mean 22 duplex outlets, or some combination. Or outlets plus the stuff you don't see (dishwasher, disposal, fridge, MW, etc)?

I can't 'see' a circuit feed when I look at someone's kitchen, I need to go to the panel for that. So there seems to be a gap here. I guess for a largish kitchen with lots of counter space, 22 duplex outlets isn't so out there, esp if you are counting the built in appliances.

 

[Koolau]

I am trying to absorb the idea of 22 circuits for one room.

That's a long way away from the fuse panel in my childhood home that had 8 screw in fuses for the entire home.

"Don't run the toaster at the same time as the blender!" All that frozen concentrated orange juice was mixed by hand, thank you, lest you get the wrath of dad dragging you to the basement to change the fuse.

Did you ever run out of fuses and then do the "penny" trick? Not a good idea, but it did w*rk.

I used to have a Mazda RX2 (Wankel.) For some reason, the fuel pump burned out fuses every 6 months or so. I found that an old style pop-top was perfect to make the car run until I could buy a new set of fuses. Again, not recommended but better than being stranded over a lack of a fuse. YMMV

 

[JoeWras]

Did you ever run out of fuses and then do the "penny" trick? Not a good idea, but it did w*rk.

I used to have a Mazda RX2 (Wankel.) For some reason, the fuel pump burned out fuses every 6 months or so. I found that an old style pop-top was perfect to make the car run until I could buy a new set of fuses. Again, not recommended but better than being stranded over a lack of a fuse. YMMV

Nope. Dad always had plenty of fuses, and he was handy enough to know the difference between amperages. As a matter of fact, he upgraded the panel so it took the new style fuses that were specific to amperage rating. He was a plumber and hung around with enough electricians to know not to play games with pennies.

Then when I went to college, he had the panel upgraded to circuit breakers when they got central air. Wish we had central air when I grew up.

 

[GrayHare]

Yes, I recall a household total of 65 amps incoming through four fuses. Now that's enough to recharge an EV and not much more.

 

[Koolau]

Yeah, we had 60 amps and it ran not only our house but the family business. Eventually, there were just too many outages and we had to change the service to (wait for it) 100 amp.

I can't imagine building a new house today without 200 or even 300 amp service. YMMV

 

[ncbill]

Only 100A for my place.

I'll put one pf those 'smart plugs' in the 30A dryer outlet if I want to charge an EV.

 

[SecondAttempt]

Mechanical engineer here so yes, I'm an idiot on electricity but I seem to remember some rms factors for ac that make all this work. Wife's 1875 W hairdryer running on the same circuit as a few minor loads for years seems to verify this.

 

[RetMD21]

Hmmm, I think we have had a (for the Led Zep fans) "Communication Breakdown"!

When you say 22 "circuits", I took that to mean 22 feeds from the electrical panel, with 22 circuit breakers.

That's what 22 circuits means, right

 

[Time2]

Good news, an 1875w hair dryer does not necessarily actually use that much power. I have a kill-a-watt meter. I measured 3 different Con-Air branded ones with 1875w written on them. They all take about 1450w on high, 400w on low. [mod edit]
So it looks like 1875w, at least for the Conair brand is more marketing than truth.

Oh so it's like buying a stereo, every which way the manufacturer can qualify it to say, "this is the most powerful amplifier. /s/

 

[Route246]

It's still a a lot! Now, I can certainly understand that since you use a lot of countertop devices, and you were remodeling, you wanted to go provide plenty of margin, that makes good sense. But as I said, my kitchen is 8 circuits, including two separate countertop circuits. So you have another 4+2+2+2 ( last two for printer and internet). So even at that it would be 14 circuits. Still a long way from 22!

And I can see the logic of wanting to keep each countertop outlet on a separate circuit. Most kitchens alternate between two circuits, but the user is generally unaware of which ones are common, and might put multiple high current devices on one circuit by chance. With each separate, you avoid that.

It's all good. I'm just still a little shocked (bad pun intended!) at 22 circuits.

Sorry, maybe a misunderstanding. 14 (a lot, I admit it) are plugs that are exposed on the counters and ready for plug-in of anything. 8 others are for range-fan hood (high), range light (low), dishwasher, garbage disposal, refrigerator, trash compactor (unused and filled in with a cabinet as our compactor is just outside of the kitchen in the garage entryway), microwave shelf and finally, the appliance "garage" (a counter-height cabinet garage for blender, mixer, Vitamix, etc.).

When we were remodeling the vanity area I had them add 2 extra circuits inside of the floor-to-ceiling cabinets, one for a stealth surveillance NVR and the other for misc. chargers and other things that we want plugged in but out of sight.

 

[ERD50]

Hmmm, I think we have had a (for the Led Zep fans) "Communication Breakdown"!

When you say 22 "circuits", I took that to mean 22 feeds from the electrical panel, with 22 circuit breakers. ....

That's what 22 circuits means, right

Sorry, maybe a misunderstanding. ....

I think there is still a misunderstanding. Are you calling every outlet/receptacle a 'circuit'?

As I mentioned above, a 'circuit' is considered a separate feed from the electrical panel, with a circuit breaker on each 'circuit'.

So 22 outlets/receptacles in your kitchen, or 22 circuit breakers in your electrical panel - all 22 dedicated to your kitchen?

 

[Route246]

Hmmm, I think we have had a (for the Led Zep fans) "Communication Breakdown"!

When you say 22 "circuits", I took that to mean 22 feeds from the electrical panel, with 22 circuit breakers. Or do you mean 22 duplex outlets, or some combination. Or outlets plus the stuff you don't see (dishwasher, disposal, fridge, MW, etc)?

I can't 'see' a circuit feed when I look at someone's kitchen, I need to go to the panel for that. So there seems to be a gap here. I guess for a largish kitchen with lots of counter space, 22 duplex outlets isn't so out there, esp if you are counting the built in appliances.

22 circuits, 22 individual breakers including the unseen ones. They are all routed into the kitchen.

 

[Route246]

I think there is still a misunderstanding. Are you calling every outlet/receptacle a 'circuit'?

As I mentioned above, a 'circuit' is considered a separate feed from the electrical panel, with a circuit breaker on each 'circuit'.

So 22 outlets/receptacles in your kitchen, or 22 circuit breakers in your electrical panel - all 22 dedicated to your kitchen?

Yes, as stated above, all 22 circuit breakers in the main panel dedicated to the kitchen. The house was built in 1960 originally with 100A service with Zinsco breakers which are no longer available. We upgraded to 200A service and the electrician chose Square D for the panel. Have since had to double up breakers to make sure everything fits. Next step is to get a subpanel installed if we want to do anymore remodeling or additions.

 

[JoeWras]

Wow. That's a lot of breakers for one room. I may even use I word that I think is overused: "unprecedented".

 

[ERD50]

22 circuits, 22 individual breakers including the unseen ones. They are all routed into the kitchen.

I'm still wondering if we are communicating?

What is an "unseen" breaker? Breakers are in the panel (or sub-panel). What distinguishes a 'seen' one, from an 'unseen' one? That distinction is confusing to me.

 

[freedomatlast]

That's what I was wondering.

 

[ncbill]

IIRC, code only requires two 20A circuits for the outlets in a kitchen here in the USA.

Some 120VAC appliances like an over-the-range microwave require their own dedicated 20A circuit.

Which I only discovered when replacing an all-in-one range/microwave with separate range/OTR microwave.

Electric range has its own 240VAC circuit.

Lighting would normally be on 15A circuits.

 

[ERD50]

IIRC, code only requires two 20A circuits for the outlets in a kitchen here in the USA. ...

Sure, but code only specifies minimum requirements. @Route246 mentioned they have a lot of high draw countertop devices, some used simultaneously. So it makes good sense to go far above minimum requirements.

But it still isn't making sense - "unseen" circuit breakers?