Maintaining our relationship in retirement.

[Gumby]

I wanted to share this article from the NYT about the difficulties of maintaining our relationships with our spouses after we retire. I don't know if the young wife and I have the answer, but we seem to have settled into a pattern of his activities , her activities and joint activities. It appears to be working so far. These Couples Survived a Lot. Then Came Retirement.

 

[street]

I know that it can be a worry for some people that are thinking of retiring. I have heard the concern from a few before they retired and that was a game changer for not retiring.

For us we have always had different interests and activities through our 40 year marriage. We truly are meant for each other and are the same in many ways but really not the same.

So, when we retired a few years apart there was absolutely no learning curve for us to adapt when both of us ER.

I'm sure it could be an issue and lead to other problems.

 

[jollystomper]

Interesting article. This section jumped out for me (bold is mine):

Early in his career, John Gottman, a founder of the Gottman Institute, a center devoted to the study of successful marriages, believed that the best predictor of happiness in retirement would be a robust “second identity” for one or both members of the couple outside of work. “So if you were a mechanic but you also sang in the choir, in church on weekends, or you flew hang gliders or something like that, and it was important to you,” Gottman thought, then the pain of the loss of one identity would be dulled by the full emergence of the second.

But research over the years has found only a limited effect of a second identity on happiness in that phase of life. The much more important factor, Gottman told me, is the quality of the marriage before retirement. The Health and Retirement Study, a sweeping national research project now in its 32nd year, found that an unhappy marriage predicts unhappiness in retirement more than declines in wealth or even health, says Mo Wang, a professor at the University of Florida who studies the retirement adjustment.

A "happy" marriage can be masked by folks doing their own thing, and really more tolerating their spouse than enjoying time with them. If that "own thing" is a job that is retired from, I can see folks getting frustrated with each other, or worse. We sadly have seen more than a few couples split up after one retired - including DW's parents.

While I agree on the individual and joint activities - I often say DW and I have a "venn diagram" of interests, activities, and relationships - I think it becomes important that the most enjoyable times should be with your spouse. That was something we worked on many years before I retired. Just as retirement takes long-term planning, how the marriage may operate in retirement takes long term planning as well.

 

[2017ish]

I read articles like that and, fortunately, am at a loss to understand them. Much like articles talking about sleep difficulties...

DW and I looked forward to retiring at the same time so that we could finally spend a large amount of quality time together. Almost 7 years in, traveling together 24/7 ~6 months of the year, we continue to enjoy it. When at home, we spend almost as much time together as when we are on the road. Exception--she doesn't like to weightlift at the same time as me; 6 mile walks, no problem, but not the weights!

No real separate friends... When one of us kicks the bucket, the other will have a learning curve.

 

[Teacher Terry]

People that don’t have individual friends end up devastated when one dies. I’ve seen it happen and it’s really sad. Your eggs should never be all in one basket.

 

[2017ish]

People that don’t have individual friends end up devastated when one dies. I’ve seen it happen and it’s really sad. Your eggs should never be all in one basket.

In general, I agree. But the process of trying to find such individual friends, when we never found any such connections during our careers, is ... difficult. Particularly when we are such outliers on travel, and when we are home, we are getting ready for the next trip or two. (No Church, no community activities, and we don't really have neighbors.)

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

Thank you @Gumby for sharing that article. I found it thought-provoking.

A nit: Surely, they meant "discreet," no?

 

[W2R]

I know that it can be a worry for some people that are thinking of retiring. I have heard the concern from a few before they retired and that was a game changer for not retiring.

For us we have always had different interests and activities through our 40 year marriage. We truly are meant for each other and are the same in many ways but really not the same.

So, when we retired a few years apart there was absolutely no learning curve for us to adapt when both of us ER.

I'm sure it could be an issue and lead to other problems.

Same here. Frank and I have similar interests, but happen to have explored different activities related to those interests. So, his activities are interesting to me (but not boring), and vice versa.

Since we don't live together, we don't have to spend time together when one or the other of us isn't enjoying it. That helps, too.

The couple in the article seem to see nothing wrong with making each other miserable when one is feeling grouchy. We do, and just separate and go do something else until we can be nice to each other again. We are too old to fight about who was right or wrong in an argument when really we don't give a hoot! Really we just want sweet, affectionate, caring time together. We want that more than proving who was right and who was wrong.

 

[Dtail]

Our relationship has improved since retirement, even though for example we spend much less than pre retirement. Everything is more relaxed without work. We each have our separate workout routines, but come together in the afternoon and evening.
Frequency of arguments are less and pleasant times and love for each other has grown.

 

[Aerides]

I think the commentary on space is important. I think I read something a while back that explained a post-retirement marriage issue, from a wife's perspective as "too much husband, not enough house" - a simply way of saying that same square footage now has two people in it all the time, instead of less than half the time.

The key is to understand that there will be an adjustment, and that you can't expect your spouse to be your 24/7 partner, and to have these conversations as part of retirement planning. "Where will we live/What will we do/Where will we go?" - the answers may well change after retirement, but the thoughts have to start.

 

[folivier]

Wanna test your relationship? Sell the large house and live in a motorhome for a few years. You'll either grow closer or further apart.
Kidding but that's what we did. Had some challenges but thoroughly enjoyed being able to do so many things together.

 

[marko]

I was travelling internationally for about 200 days a year. DW is very independent but when I RE'd we've grown much closer. We do everything together and our relationship has improved greatly. We still each have our own things that we do but we really look forward to our time together, especially our evenings. We joke "is it 5 o'clock yet?", meaning that we can't wait for dinner, drinks and some TV or reading together.

 

[Midpack]

I don't know if the young wife and I have the answer, but we seem to have settled into a pattern of his activities , her activities and joint activities.

+1, we've found that to be the best formula as well. IMO Doing everything together is a recipe for failure, but so is having no joint activities. We both encourage each others activities, while spending some quality time together every day.

 

[MarieIG]

Respectful, kind communication, compromise (negotiation), and an interest in your spouse goes a long way.

When DF retired DM initially couldn't stand it. He was used to bossing around people at work and started to (attempt to) micro manage her - which did not go over well. They calmed down after a year or two. (She decided to retire from cooking, and they went to local diners every day for a late lunch/ early dinner.) DF did some traveling with his brother, whose wife did not want to travel with him.

DH retired two years before I did and was concerned that I would never retire. (I had worked long hours and weekends.) When I did retire, both our stress levels decreased greatly in that regard, although DH helps care for grandchildren. We both very much enjoy being retired. We have some different hobbies and share others, but have the same basic values.

I read somewhere that people love their dogs because they are so happy when people come home. It is easy enough to light up when DH walks in the house and take an interest in whatever it was that he was doing. (This is mutual.) I had read books (Dale Carnegie comes to mind) and listened to podcasts about fostering relationships through the years - both business and personal, and thought if I use the interpersonal skills on business connections, how much more important that I consider a spouse.

 

[pacergal]

Good article.
We have "me" time and "us" time every day. It is important for each us to be able to pursue activities that the other might not want to participate in.
We've both been retired 7 years, about 4 years in, we hit a rough patch. It lasted most of the summer one year. But, we continued to talk things through and persevered. We've known each other 50 years, been married for 45.
As always, good communication is the key to a healthy relationship at any time during a marriage.

 

[audreyh1]

People that don’t have individual friends end up devastated when one dies. I’ve seen it happen and it’s really sad. Your eggs should never be all in one basket.

In general, I agree. But the process of trying to find such individual friends, when we never found any such connections during our careers, is ... difficult. Particularly when we are such outliers on travel, and when we are home, we are getting ready for the next trip or two. (No Church, no community activities, and we don't really have neighbors.)

+1

It may be inevitable for us. Other than family I’m not investing in a social network just in case I’m the one left behind. I would rather make the most of my time with DH. I will just have to live with the aftermath if it happens.

Wanna test your relationship? Sell the large house and live in a motorhome for a few years. You'll either grow closer or further apart.
Kidding but that's what we did. Had some challenges but thoroughly enjoyed being able to do so many things together.

We did exactly that. 5 glorious years. It was a wonderful traveling adventure and well suited to both of us.

At home we have independent hobbies and generally do our own thing beyond grocery shopping and eating, but we travel really well together and devote several month of the year to that enjoying ourselves immensely.

 

[frayne]

Relationships are hard.

 

[old medic]

Wanna test your relationship? Sell the large house and live in a motorhome for a few years. You'll either grow closer or further apart.
Kidding but that's what we did. Had some challenges but thoroughly enjoyed being able to do so many things together.

You made me fall out the chair. We sold our 2200 SqFt 3bedroom home and moved into 225 SqFt of camper 7 years ago. Come January we hit 40 years together. I tell her she had her chance last year to turn of the vent.... she said it crossed her mind. Like you said it has some challenges, but they build a stronger relationship. We had a 3 month test run with her out of last year, and looks like we will have a repeat this year.... Can't wait till she retires.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Most men that I know are very dependent on their wives for their social needs. Most women I know have some close friends that they enjoy spending time with besides their husbands.

I think that is why in general men have a much harder time when their wives die and try to immediately replace them because they are lonely. It’s healthier to have more people in your life that you care about besides just family.

 

[aja8888]

Most men that I know are very dependent on their wives for their social needs. Most women I know have some close friends that they enjoy spending time with besides their husbands.

I think that is why in general men have a much harder time when their wives die and try to immediately replace them because they are lonely. It’s healthier to have more people in your life that you care about besides just family.

Most men I know are not that dependent on their wives for general social needs. Take in point my 15+ or so friends who are all between 70 - 82 and meet daily for breakfast (all married for a long time and two are widowers). We also have golf days, trip days and other outings and have been doing this for 20+ years. None of us worked together and our wives have their own social circles.

There are many men in my immediate area who have groups of friends like I do. Now if you are an introvert, like many here, and just socialize with your wifes married friends, that's a different story.

My wife passed away 12/8/2022 and I have survived the grief period and my close friends were a big part in me getting past that period. I do not need a woman to make my life complete at this point and I am living a pretty good retired life. My avatar tells the story.

I confess though....I do have a dog (not a replacement for a woman, though)!

 

[Teacher Terry]

AJA, you are smart and a well rounded man. Having a group of friends is so important. I just don’t know too many men like you.

 

[aja8888]

AJA, you are smart and a well rounded man. Having a group of friends is so important. I just don’t know too many men like you.

I'm sure that I don't "see" the other side of this as I spend my free time with friends. I'm sure you see it and I don't due to location and situational factors. When I was married, we had a big circle of married friends, but maybe I didn't identify the males who had no other friends outside of the married social system.

One thing about having a circle of friends outside of the married social system is that one has more opportunity to stay busy in retirement. Many of my married friends in my meetups really value our time together and having space and time from their wives.

 

[Rianne]

We just like each other. We enjoy time together. But we give each other plenty of space. We've learned when the other doesn't feel like talking. Or needs time alone. We eat on different schedules and do not eat the same thing. Unless we go out to eat. I accept and understand his obsession with sports. I'm into various movies and series. Sometimes I watch his sports, sometimes he watches my movies with me. We bicker a bit. I think it's important to be friends. My BFF's dad in high school said it takes 25 years to know true love. And sometimes longer.

 

[Koolau]

We know "couples" so loss of a spouse leaves a 5th wheel situation. I see that as a looming issue (for one of us) in the future. YMMV

 

[2017ish]

We know "couples" so loss of a spouse leaves a 5th wheel situation. I see that as a looming issue (for one of us) in the future. YMMV

Yeah, that's us too. We occasionally get together with two couples in town (2 or 3 dinners a year?), and with two others that live 13 and 8 hours away (We get together with them for a week or so every year, plus the occasional drop in.). Then we also have our kids/grands, and other relatives who we get along well with when we travel to see them.

That and our traveling and working out is sufficient to keep us busy for now.