No Will When Last Parent Passes Away

[MercyMe]

My neighbor just told me that his father died a few weeks ago (his mom passed last year). His father had a small bank account that listed him as a pay-on-death beneficiary. There are no other siblings. And there was no will. There was also no real property owned by his father but he did have some personal items like a tv, furniture, and some appliances.

My neighbor didn’t go through probate since the estate was valued at less that $50k. In our state that is the cap which skips normal probate and just an affidavit of successor ownership is typically filed.

But he didn’t even do the affidavit. He just took the tv, etc and brought it home and then cancelled his father’s cable, electric, apartment.

Is it ok for him to not file the affidavit? Is there something else he should have done?

 

[rk911]

There's nobody to file a complaint. Frankly, I would've done the same thing.

 

[SecondCor521]

There's nobody to file a complaint. Frankly, I would've done the same thing.

Agree with this.

The affidavit would only be necessary if the possessor of the decedent's property required it, which they apparently didn't in this case. And the POD takes care of the bank account, so an affidavit wouldn't be needed for that either.

As far as other stuff to do, I would suggest mail forwarding of the decedent's mail to the son in case there are lingering bills (maybe final medical) or unknown assets. And while the funeral home should have informed Social Security, it might be decent to check to make sure the SS payments were shut off correctly. Finally, maybe check with the state escheat department in a few years in case any assets end up there.

 

[Badger]

How does any debt fit in with this?

 

[street]

I did basically the same thing 9 years when my mother passed away.

 

[athena53]

My Ex died with no will, few assets and a boatload of debt. An attorney I consulted said that there was no need to open an estate and if any creditor turned up we should tell them that and that they could open estate proceedings if they wanted to. No one contacted us. DS got his computer and other assorted possessions.

A few years later DS did a Missing Money search and found about $1,000 in various abandoned accounts in his Dad's name. He did need to file an Affidavit of Small Estate to get the funds.

 

[CO-guy]

I did pretty much the same thing when my last grandparent passed away. I brought her clothes to Goodwill and gave her TV to a health aid. I brought the nursing staff a catered lunch and let them browse her effects for anything they liked before donating the rest.

 

[Chuckanut]

My understanding is that there is a will. The one the state writes for people who die without a will. It may not mean much if there aren’t anyassets of value.

 

[pb4uski]

Is it ok for him to not file the affidavit? Is there something else he should have done?

Yes.

 

[SecondCor521]

How does any debt fit in with this?

Debt of the decedent is supposed to be paid from the decedents assets first, in an order that is prescribed by state law. If there is anything left over, it then passes according to the will, state intestacy laws, POD, or other similar mechanism.

If there is probate, then the executor becomes personally responsible to ensure this happens.

If there is not probate and a small estate affidavit is used, in my state the person to whom the assets are transferred after receipt of the affidavit is liable for any unpaid debts.

I've seen cases where the rules aren't followed, but that's how it's supposed to work AFAIK.

 

[MercyMe]

Thank you all for the replies. This is helpful.

 

[RetMD21]

....

My neighbor didn’t go through probate since the estate was valued at less that $50k. In our state that is the cap which skips normal probate and just an affidavit of successor ownership is typically filed.

...

In Michigan there is no "filing" of the affidavit. You just show it to the person or entity holding the property to get it released.

 

[frank]

I had an uncle that passed and his assets were under the low limits in the state of iowa, so I just checked to see if he owed any money. paid his bills for utilities and gave the rest away. no will, no probate, and no affadavit. that was 15 years ago and have not heard from anybody to argue it, so I assume it works. just check to see what the minimum amount is in your state that you can bypass probate.

 

[MarieIG]

While laws vary from state to state, I would not worry about it. He is most likely the statutory "heir" and no taxes, etc. are due.

 

[Sojourner]

The only potential snag I see with not going through probate is that some companies (say, for example, the decedent's auto insurance company, or their ISP) might not be willing to close their account without proof of executorship of the estate. AFAIK, only a probate court can issue such a document (called "letters testamentary" here in my neck of the woods) which gives one legal authority to act on behalf of the deceased in all matters.

But he didn’t even do the affidavit. He just took the tv, etc and brought it home and then cancelled his father’s cable, electric, apartment.

I would be interested to know how he was able to cancel/close all these accounts (especially the apartment/rental/lease) without some proof of "executorship" (legal authority). Maybe he just impersonated his father while speaking on the phone to the various company reps?

 

[athena53]

The only potential snag I see with not going through probate is that some companies (say, for example, the decedent's auto insurance company, or their ISP) might not be willing to close their account without proof of executorship of the estate.

What about a death certificate?

 

[pb4uski]

The only potential snag I see with not going through probate is that some companies (say, for example, the decedent's auto insurance company, or their ISP) might not be willing to close their account without proof of executorship of the estate. AFAIK, only a probate court can issue such a document (called "letters testamentary" here in my neck of the woods) which gives one legal authority to act on behalf of the deceased in all matters.



I would be interested to know how he was able to cancel/close all these accounts (especially the apartment/rental/lease) without some proof of "executorship" (legal authority). Maybe he just impersonated his father while speaking on the phone to the various company reps?

Usually if you stop paying the account eventually gets closed.

 

[Sojourner]

Usually if you stop paying the account eventually gets closed.

Usually, but often only after numerous threatening letters about the unpaid amounts being turned over to collections.

What about a death certificate?

IME, that is usually not sufficient. Most companies want to see a copy of the letters testamentary.

 

[gauss]

I would just call all of the billers and let them know, as his son, that he passed away without a Probate Estate. If they request a death certificate than I would send it to them.

I have handled 3 estates so far over the past 10 years.

Letters of Authority, issued by a Probate Court, are typically needed when assets held only in the deceased name need to be released (or alternatively some type of "small estate" affidative.)

Notification of a biller of a death with a death certificate should be sufficient for them to close/freeze any accounts.

 

[SecondCor521]

IME, that is usually not sufficient. Most companies want to see a copy of the letters testamentary.

That is surprising to me. Since probate is not always required, it stands to reason that companies should have processes in place for those cases when it isn't done.

We personally did not have any issues with closing out any of my Mom's accounts without providing letters testementary (although my Dad had them).

Because of the way my state's estate laws work, my Dad's estate won't have to go through probate at all.

Paying debts of the deceased shouldn't be that hard either, and no impersonation is needed. "Hi, I'd like to pay off account 1234, what's the balance? Here's my CC info. Thanks!"

 

[pb4uski]

Usually, but often only after numerous threatening letters about the unpaid amounts being turned over to collections. ..

But so what... the obligor is dead and the estate is $0 so they can send all the threatening letters and phone calls to a dead person if they want.

I've administered 4 estates and never did anything that I recall other than called and told the vendor that their customer had died and we were closing the account. FWIW, none were probated estates... 2 were too small and the 2 others were trusts.

 

[MarieIG]

Usually, but often only after numerous threatening letters about the unpaid amounts being turned over to collections.


IME, that is usually not sufficient. Most companies want to see a copy of the letters testamentary.

I administered the estates for both of my parents. There were no letters testamentary, as there were no wills. There were letters of administration, but I did not need them to close credit card and non-brokerage accounts. Death certificates were sufficient, with one exception. I paid any outstanding bills, which were small, as I kept up with all payments. I also don't recall anyone refusing to accept payment due to a lack of authorization.

I needed letters to transfer assets where there was no joint owner or TOD.

The exception noted above - one of the utility companies, which was paid, provided with death certificates, Letters, regular mail, certified mail RRR, e-mail, telephone calls, signing up to electronically pay the bill, you name it. DF is still receiving bills. (Amazingly he is paid up to date.)

 

[ncbill]

But so what... the obligor is dead and the estate is $0 so they can send all the threatening letters and phone calls to a dead person if they want.

I've administered 4 estates and never did anything that I recall other than called and told the vendor that their customer had died and we were closing the account. FWIW, none were probated estates... 2 were too small and the 2 others were trusts.

Yep I've got a relative whose husband died suddenly last year.

He had business-related debt but she never was involved in the business so no exposure to creditor claims for her & thus no need to even open probate given he died insolvent.