The Electric Vehicle Thread

[ken830]

It is interesting that there is a discussion on how to get property tax relief to people in Texas.... but during the debate someone said that 51% of households RENT... I wonder what it is nationally.



Now, I know that some rent a house, but I doubt that they will cough up the money for a charging station.


But if half the people rent then there will be a problem with charging from most people...

A "charging station" as you call it is basically a $200 or 230 Tesla mobile connector (that was included free up until about a year ago) and any old 240V outlet in the garage, which probably exists already, or can be easily put in. The convenience makes it well worth the minimal effort required.

https://shop.tesla.com/product/corded-mobile-connector
https://shop.tesla.com/product/mobile-connector

 

[Zathras]

... Why don't EV manufacturers publish both highway and city ranges separately, in addition to the combined, since they are different and they do have that information? I would want to know both as an EV buyer.

EV manufacturers do publish both highway and city mpge.
This is the same information the window sticker provides for ICE vehicles, except it is in mpg, not mpge.

The window stickers are regulated by the EPA, the information they require is what is included.

Some manufacturers include additional info about EVs and what affects their range on their websites.

 

[ken830]

Lol.

Well an app used by EV owners certainly did so!

I would say 95+% of EV owners don't use it and a majority of them have never even heard of Plugshare.

 

[Zathras]

Lol.

Well an app used by EV owners certainly did so!

The owner of the charger had likely plugged in their charger with the App called PlugShare. Quite possibly years ago, and then forgot about it.

No vehicle will direct people to a private charger (unless the vehicle cheaped out and uses PlugShare.)

To answer your question, in 13 years of owning electric vehicles I have never been routed to, or had someone routed to my private charger.

 

[Montecfo]

I would say 95+% of EV owners don't use it and a majority of them have never even heard of Plugshare.

Well it sounds to me like a lot of folks ARE familiar with Plugshare.

"About seven out of 10 EV owners in the US have downloaded the PlugShare app."
https://electrek.co/2021/07/14/evgo...even out of 10,payment system for EV charging.

I think people misremember a lot of things. And my friend has only used it once in desperation.

Not sure how any of that matters. Larger question is what to do when this happens since there is no gas can.

I would guess all EV owners should know about it.

 

[Montecfo]

The owner of the charger had likely plugged in their charger with the App called PlugShare. Quite possibly years ago, and then forgot about it.



No vehicle will direct people to a private charger (unless the vehicle cheaped out and uses PlugShare.)



To answer your question, in 13 years of owning electric vehicles I have never been routed to, or had someone routed to my private charger.

But that's exactly what happened. And is is part of Plugshare's business model.

 

[Chuckanut]

Ah, so I guess the spikes are short enough that the increase even if passed through to consumers is tiny.



At first I was thinking it was like here in Washington state where our governor said the carbon tax on gasoline would not be passed through to consumers but rather the oil companies would just absorb it as a good will gesture. He said it would be pennies a gallon at most.



We now have gasoline 60 pennies higher than our neighboring states and the highest price in the country.



I guess he didn't say how many pennies it would be.

Idaho is $1 less per gallon than WA. WA has the most expensive gas in the nation thanks to our new carbon tax.

I don’t see the WA carbon tax affecting EV owners at least for a few more years. But, with plans to remove four power providing dams from the local rivers….. well the electricity has to come from somewhere. Solar perhaps, but Winter days this far North can be as little as 8.25 hours long. And the sunlight is not intense. And with the current drive to limit new gas hookups, and convert existing ones to electricity, there may be a real conflict. If natural gas has to be used the EVs will be paying more due to the carbon tax.

 

[Texas Proud]

A "charging station" as you call it is basically a $200 or 230 Tesla mobile connector (that was included free up until about a year ago) and any old 240V outlet in the garage, which probably exists already, or can be easily put in. The convenience makes it well worth the minimal effort required.

https://shop.tesla.com/product/corded-mobile-connector
https://shop.tesla.com/product/mobile-connector

Not sure about others, but I doubt the percent of people renting a house compared to an apt is that big...


I have not lived in a house with a 240V outlet and if I were renting I would not want to pay to add one... but I guess if you own an EV you might want to do it if there is a garage...

 

[Montecfo]

Not sure about others, but I doubt the percent of people renting a house compared to an apt is that big...


I have not lived in a house with a 240V outlet and if I were renting I would not want to pay to add one... but I guess if you own an EV you might want to do it if there is a garage...

No 240V in my garage or in any house I have lived in. If it is there it might have a clothes dryer plugged into it.

 

[Midpack]

No 240V in my garage or in any house I have lived in. If it is there it might have a clothes dryer plugged into it.

I added a 250V 50a circuit and an industrial quality receptacle professionally installed for $485. It's not necessarily that expensive if you want an EV. I do have the $230 Tesla mobile connector as well. Both pay you back in reduced "fuel" costs pretty quickly...3-4 months to breakeven in my case.

 

[Chuckanut]

I have one 240 volt circuit for my dryer. I use the dryer maybe 5 hours a week. The rest of the time it could be charging my future EV. I am one of the people who has a garage where I could park an EV and charge it overnight. It would be easy to switch power to the dryer outlet for those 5 hours, I hope. The rest of the time the 240 volt circuit (30 Amps) could be available to charge the EV if I had one.

 

[Montecfo]

I added a 250V 50a circuit and an industrial quality receptacle professionally installed for $485. It's not necessarily that expensive if you want an EV. I do have the $230 Tesla mobile connector as well. Both pay you back in reduced "fuel" costs pretty quickly...3-4 months to breakeven in my case.

Yes. Larger point is that the value proposition works a lot better if you own your home and have a garage. A big chunk of the market does not. And another big chunk of those with garages rent.

For those home charging is either problematic or impossible.

I would guess most of the folks on this thread own and have a garage. I do have a place to charge but would need to put in a 240v circuit. That would be pretty awkward since the point of presence is other side of house and one floor down.

 

[Chuckanut]

007 to get an EV?

From today’s WSJ:

“In an example of the kind of partnership the car industry needs more of, the next Bond movie just might feature an electric-car chase powered by California technology.

Lucid LCID 1.46%increase; green up pointing triangle Group shares were up 13% in early-morning trading after sports-car maker Aston Martin AML 10.76%increase; green up pointing triangle Lagonda said it would buy components from the Silicon Valley electric-vehicle startup. Lucid will initially get $142 million and a roughly 3.7% stake in the British company, which made much of its trademark association with fictional spy James Bond when it went public in 2018.”

 

[ken830]

Well it sounds to me like a lot of folks ARE familiar with Plugshare.

"About seven out of 10 EV owners in the US have downloaded the PlugShare app."
https://electrek.co/2021/07/14/evgo...even out of 10,payment system for EV charging.

I think people misremember a lot of things. And my friend has only used it once in desperation.

Not sure how any of that matters. Larger question is what to do when this happens since there is no gas can.

I would guess all EV owners should know about it.

7 out of 10? There's no possible way that is true and there's no source other than themselves. And that was 2021. I was around the scene 10+ years ago and back then, it was probably close to 10 out of 10... Today, with 2M+ EVs being pumped out every year and prevalent charging networks globally, it's going to be nowhere near that number. Even the Google Play store lists the lifetime number of downloads at 1M+ only (no idea where to find that info for the Apple App Store). I would say that 7 out of 10 EV owners reading electrek might be possible though. I know a lot of EV owners and I'm probably the only person in my circle of friends/family that has actually used Plugshare.

And you're right that the number doesn't matter... but we're just pushing back on your characterization of the experience as typical. It's simply not. No car will direct the driver to some random private residence for charging. No modern car will let you get so low in charge without warning anyway. This fear of running out of energy or what happens when you need an EV-equivalent of a "gas can" may be fun to think about, but it is far from anything a typical driver will ever experience in their life of EV ownership.

 

[Koolau]

Thank goodness all ICE vehicles always get the EPA stated MPG, and the range (miles remaining to empty) on the gas gauge is never overstated. The range figure on the gas gauge is/has been overstated more often than not on every ICE or HEV we’ve ever owned from any brand until you’re down to a quarter tank or so.

Heh, heh, I was speaking with DW about this lately. When SHE drives, we get less than EPA numbers. When I drive, we get better than EPA numbers. She seems to have no interest in the discussion.

Regarding lower mileage for EVs, my only data point is son's Mod. 3. He gets somewhat less than the predicted mileage. I've ridden with him enough to know he drives fairly conservatively. His car is older now which may be a part of the discrepancy.

 

[Montecfo]

7 out of 10? There's no possible way that is true and there's no source other than themselves. And that was 2021. I was around the scene 10+ years ago and back then, it was probably close to 10 out of 10... Today, with 2M+ EVs being pumped out every year and prevalent charging networks globally, it's going to be nowhere near that number. Even the Google Play store lists the lifetime number of downloads at 1M+ only (no idea where to find that info for the Apple App Store). I would say that 7 out of 10 EV owners reading electrek might be possible though. I know a lot of EV owners and I'm probably the only person in my circle of friends/family that has actually used Plugshare.



And you're right that the number doesn't matter... but we're just pushing back on your characterization of the experience as typical. It's simply not. No car will direct the driver to some random private residence for charging. No modern car will let you get so low in charge without warning anyway. This fear of running out of energy or what happens when you need an EV-equivalent of a "gas can" may be fun to think about, but it is far from anything a typical driver will ever experience in their life of EV ownership.

The facts are the facts. Even though you know a lot of EV owners, I think- probably- the company's own numbers are more credible.

And I never said my friend's experience was typical. I simply shared it.

Plugshare appears to be a valuable tool that is widely known.

Good info.

Running out of fuel is a serious issue for most EV owners. Not only inconvenient but dangerous.

I would definitely plan to avoid.

 

[ken830]

And I never said my friend's experience was typical. I simply shared it.

You shared it and asked if "this happens to other folks?" and the answer is absolutely not. There is no car that will automatically direct you to a random private residence to ask for charging. Just want to make this point clear for others reading this and researching EVs.

Running out of fuel is a serious issue for most EV owners. Not only inconvenient but dangerous.

I would definitely plan to avoid.

Not sure how this is related to EVs... running out of fuel on any vehicle is can be dangerous. At least keeping an EV "fueled" is generally easier and cheaper than other vehicles that run off other fuel sources.

 

[audreyh1]

My house came with an RV pedestal as part of the giant covered “coach port” for parking a large motorhome. We used that RV pedestal 50A connection with the mobile connect for over 6 months before finally installing a Tesla Wall Charger in a more convenient location. Yes, it’s unusual for houses to come with RV pedestals but a common feature in our neighborhood.

 

[Koolau]

There is no car that will automatically direct you to a random private residence to ask for charging.

I'd never thought of this, but I think it would be a great idea. I recall more than once stopping at a farm house and asking for a gallon of gas to get me home. If I had an EV that was running low on fuel, I'd love to be directed to a fellow EV owner's house in hopes that they would let me put in a few miles of electricity. I'm sure I'd do it for someone desperate for some juice.

 

[audreyh1]

I'd never thought of this, but I think it would be a great idea. I recall more than once stopping at a farm house and asking for a gallon of gas to get me home. If I had an EV that was running low on fuel, I'd love to be directed to a fellow EV owner's house in hopes that they would let me put in a few miles of electricity. I'm sure I'd do it for someone desperate for some juice.

RV parks (including public campgrounds) are pretty widespread wherever we travel and I do occasionally look at PlugShare.com for out of the way areas.

 

[Koolau]

I was just whisked back (in my mind) to a trip I made in the early 90s where I found myself in west Texas and kinda low on gas (What was I thinking?) There were absolutely no houses, buildings, etc. in sight. Running out of gas would have been anything from frightening to dangerous. I finally stopped at a little town that had two gas pumps (the diesel pump was over by the kerosene dispenser.) It was a pleasure to be "overcharged" for my gas. I would have paid a lot more!

I just can't imagine running out of electricity - no matter how many folks say it can't happen. Heh, heh, I managed to run out of gas before and I knew better.

 

[Midpack]

I have one 240 volt circuit for my dryer. I use the dryer maybe 5 hours a week. The rest of the time it could be charging my future EV. I am one of the people who has a garage where I could park an EV and charge it overnight. It would be easy to switch power to the dryer outlet for those 5 hours, I hope. The rest of the time the 240 volt circuit (30 Amps) could be available to charge the EV if I had one.

You could, but you’d probably want to upgrade the circuit to 50-60 amps, and replace the receptacle with a commercials grade. 30 amps may well charge fast enough for most peoples needs, but it could be faster. Most residential dryer receptacles are cheapos that aren’t meant to plug/unplug often and they will break down quickly. Most homeowners plug in a dryer once when they buy it, and never touch it again until they replace the dryer. FWIW

 

[joesxm3]

I opted for the Tesla wall connector and paid a little under $1500 for the whole deal with a 50 foot wire run.

If I were to do the NEMA route, I would buy a second mobile connector and leave it plugged into the socket all the time.

 

[Midpack]

I opted for the Tesla wall connector and paid a little under $1500 for the whole deal with a 50 foot wire run.

If I were to do the NEMA route, I would buy a second mobile connector and leave it plugged into the socket all the time.

While I wouldn’t plug/unplug more often than necessary, your practice may be overkill. I’d get a commercial grade 14-50 plug for the higher load, not to avoid plug/unplug. Receptacles are designed with insertion/removal cycles, that’s why they cost from $10 to $150. The cheapie 14-50s are made for unplugging once every 20 years when you buy a new dryer or range. The quality 14-50s are made for daily use at RV parks. But consider alternatives for many reasons.

 

[Texas Proud]

Well, made me go look.... my dryer is plugged into a 120V outlet.


I do have the 240 on the wall but nothing plugged in. It is inside the house so not a good place to plug an EV.