The Electric Vehicle Thread

[JoeWras]

Maybe I worry too much, but I feel that we have to take my step dads gas Nissan Centre out for a spin every 2-3 weeks now that he does not drive. Circulate the oil, charge up the 12 volt battery, make sure the brake calipers don't freeze up or the tires go square.

I would worry about the tires and the brake calipers even with my Tesla. I saw one video saying that due to lack of use caused by regen braking Tesla calipers should be lubricated every year or so, especially in harsh conditions.

Any car should be exercised. Stuff to consider:
- Roll the tires
- Scare away the rodents trying to set up shop
- Bump and press the rubber bushings
- Get the AC moving to exercise seals, compressors, fluids
- Break the rubber door seals

And so on.

 

[joesxm3]

Good point about the AC. He has had issues with rodents in the last.

 

[ls99]

According to a Jalopnik article, electric cars are not selling briskly.
https://jalopnik.com/no-one-in-the-us-really-wants-to-buy-electric-vehicles-1850622254

The headline might be a bit of hype. They do provide numbers.
"Even so, it looks like EV supply is outstripping demand by a significant margin. The nation’s fully-electric cache is reportedly up by 350 percent this year, with nationwide inventory sitting at over 92,000 vehicles. That translates to a 92-day supply of EVs, which is almost twice the current average for gas-burning cars."
Am sure there will be rebuttals.
Or some significant price drops by manufacturers to clear out inventory.Certainly the "floorplan" finance charges are nothing to sneeze at.


"The healthy supply of EVs may not seem as alarming considering that the industry average is a 70-day supply during “normal times,” per Axios,"
"Plug-in and traditional hybrids from Toyota are making the best of 2023, with current supply for the Prius and RAV4 sitting at under 30 days each. Axios claims that this reaffirms Toyota’s argument that car buyers need a “stepping stone” from ICE to EVs."

 

[ken830]

According to a Jalopnik article, electric cars are not selling briskly.
https://jalopnik.com/no-one-in-the-us-really-wants-to-buy-electric-vehicles-1850622254

The headline might be a bit of hype. They do provide numbers.
"Even so, it looks like EV supply is outstripping demand by a significant margin. The nation’s fully-electric cache is reportedly up by 350 percent this year, with nationwide inventory sitting at over 92,000 vehicles. That translates to a 92-day supply of EVs, which is almost twice the current average for gas-burning cars."
Am sure there will be rebuttals.
Or some significant price drops by manufacturers to clear out inventory.Certainly the "floorplan" finance charges are nothing to sneeze at.


"The healthy supply of EVs may not seem as alarming considering that the industry average is a 70-day supply during “normal times,” per Axios,"
"Plug-in and traditional hybrids from Toyota are making the best of 2023, with current supply for the Prius and RAV4 sitting at under 30 days each. Axios claims that this reaffirms Toyota’s argument that car buyers need a “stepping stone” from ICE to EVs."

The headline seems fishy and probably a result of cherry-picking or something. The sub-headline reads, "EVs from Toyota, Ford, Audi and Genesis are just sitting on dealer lots as supply outgrows demand" so it probably doesn't include Tesla. This is likely on purpose since Tesla is just so much better when it comes to value proposition, providing a product that is superior is so many ways, yet cheaper. This is probably hurting all other vehicle sales, especially other EVs. But leaving out Tesla and then going with a headline like, "No One In The U.S. Really Wants To Buy Electric Vehicles" seems dishonest, because Tesla is selling a LOT of EVs in the U.S..

I'll leave it to others if they want to spend the time, but I personally will not spend anytime on anything published on Jalopnik -- they have proven to be untrustworthy for over a decade when it comes to Tesla-related "news" so I just don't waste any of my time anymore.

Regarding inventory, Tesla is by far the largest producer of EVs so I'm not sure anyone else really matters if we're talking global average EV inventory levels. Tesla's last quarterly report (Q1 '23) shows 15 days of supply. Last week, they reported production and delivery numbers for Q2 '23, which added 13,560 vehicles (production minus deliveries). That will likely bring the number up to ~16 days of inventory considering the increased production/delivery rate. We'll see days-of-supply number when the quarterly report comes out next week. They are definitely selling a lot of cars and continuing to sell more cars, and breaking records.

 

[ls99]

^^^ The article did not discuss any sales numbers of teslas, a segment of the total market, that i noticed.

 

[Montecfo]

Show me any EV fan who insists there are no cons or downsides? And many of those 6000 posts have already explained what the cons are and how they’re mitigated for some but not all owners, you seem to dismiss them.

There are pros and cons for EVs, PHEVs, BEVs, HEVs, and ICE. If you can charge at home, and you don’t take frequent long trips***, and you’re a 2 car family like millions of people, an EV and an ICE/HEV is ideal. Even a single car household could be an EV if the first two conditions are true. No one has said an EV is ideal for all passenger car use cases.

*** There is a world of difference between the Tesla supercharger network reliability/availability and all other charge providers. The millions of Tesla owners on longer trips don’t have to deal with Electrify America and the other unreliable charge stations. Tesla owners do long trips relying on chargers every day. While it does add time it’s manageable. My trip home takes 13 hours by ICE and 14 by Tesla. ICE is 12 hours driving plus 1 hour gas/food/breaks. Tesla is 12 hours driving plus 2 hours charging enroute during which gas/food/breaks happen.

This is the type of response that I think makes reasoned discussion challenging. To suggest no one has sought to minimize or deny there are any limitations ("zero limitations") involved in EV ownership is a bit rich. I won't bother to point out who made these claims but they happened.

6000+ posts mostly extolling the virtues of EVs I am sure have plowed only new ground in all cases. Nothing repetitive.

Better to simply respond to questions and issues to whatever extent you are able to based on your own experiences, wouldn't you think? I think that is a valuable way to advance the discussion.

 

[Koolau]

According to a Jalopnik article, electric cars are not selling briskly.
https://jalopnik.com/no-one-in-the-us-really-wants-to-buy-electric-vehicles-1850622254

The headline might be a bit of hype. They do provide numbers.
"Even so, it looks like EV supply is outstripping demand by a significant margin. The nation’s fully-electric cache is reportedly up by 350 percent this year, with nationwide inventory sitting at over 92,000 vehicles. That translates to a 92-day supply of EVs, which is almost twice the current average for gas-burning cars."
Am sure there will be rebuttals.
Or some significant price drops by manufacturers to clear out inventory.Certainly the "floorplan" finance charges are nothing to sneeze at.


"The healthy supply of EVs may not seem as alarming considering that the industry average is a 70-day supply during “normal times,” per Axios,"
"Plug-in and traditional hybrids from Toyota are making the best of 2023, with current supply for the Prius and RAV4 sitting at under 30 days each. Axios claims that this reaffirms Toyota’s argument that car buyers need a “stepping stone” from ICE to EVs."

It seems that many folks have now agreed with me that the sweet spot for electrification is the hybrid. (Actually, I think I'd prefer the plug-in hybrid.)
The hybrid means that your fill ups are much less painful than ICE and the buy-in for a hybrid is much less painful than a full EV.

No wonder the supply is lower for hybrids. They meet a real need at a good price for people who have no "allegiance" to EVs OR ICE cars. They just want practical and inexpensive.

 

[ken830]

It seems that many folks have now agreed with me that the sweet spot for electrification is the hybrid. (Actually, I think I'd prefer the plug-in hybrid.)
The hybrid means that your fill ups are much less painful than ICE and the buy-in for a hybrid is much less painful than a full EV.

No wonder the supply is lower for hybrids. They meet a real need at a good price for people who have no "allegiance" to EVs OR ICE cars. They just want practical and inexpensive.

While a plug-in hybrid may be a good fit for you, I really don't think it makes a lot of sense for most people. Just go straight EV. That hybrid sweet spot probably existed more than 10 years ago. We're now way passed that. I've already expressed my feelings about the downsides of a hybrid and how it lacks most of the benefits of an EV, especially considering the price you can get a Tesla for nowadays. I think most people will agree with me on this and the sales figures have shown this trend for a long time. Here're the latest monthly plug-in EV sales numbers from the Department of Energy (through December 2022):

https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1275-january-30-2023-monthly-plug-electric-vehicle-sales-united-states

Dataset in spreadsheet format is also available: https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2023-01/FOTW_1275_web.xlsx

This is reported in terms of market share percentage. The underlying data comes from ANL (Argonne National laboratory)

As you see, the sales of EVs began to outpace PHEV from 2018, which is the year the Tesla Model 3 started to be readily available for sale. Then, the EV line really takes off in 2020, which is the year the Tesla Model Y became available for sale. I'm pretty certain we won't see those EV numbers come back down. We're now >6 months into 2023, and Tesla is continuing to break it's own production and sales numbers, so that line will continue to move up this year. Tesla is ramping up a couple of factory lines, bringing up a new line, building a new factory, and negotiation future factories, so I don't think that line will taper off anything soon. I believe EVs will continue to take market share and if other manufacturers won't/can't do it, Tesla will do it on their own and drag along all the others.

 

[Koolau]

^^^^^^^


In my situation, and I think in many folks situation, we have no particular dog in the hunt regarding hybrid, plug in hybrid or full EV. We want lower per-mile costs that fit in with our driving requirements. Clearly a hybrid costs less than an EV and since I don't drive a lot, the advantages of an EV may be taken away. I'm just glad we have all the choices.

 

[ken830]

This is the type of response that I think makes reasoned discussion challenging. To suggest no one has sought to minimize or deny there are any limitations ("zero limitations") involved in EV ownership is a bit rich. I won't bother to point out who made these claims but they happened.

6000+ posts mostly extolling the virtues of EVs I am sure have plowed only new ground in all cases. Nothing repetitive.

Better to simply respond to questions and issues to whatever extent you are able to based on your own experiences, wouldn't you think? I think that is a valuable way to advance the discussion.

You're correct in that the nearly 7,000 posts are mostly going back and forth over the same topics, but if you really think it's anywhere close to 6,000+ posts extolling the virtues of EVs, then I would say you haven't been paying attention at all... Most of the posts have been discussions (and many times heated discussions) about concerns regarding EVs and their limitations, dangers, fire-risks, range anxiety, and on and on... I know many of these fears are innocently mis-guided or imagined, but they come up over and over and some of us have to continually provide data and personal experience to allay these fears, but they come up again and again. If you read carefully, you will see that there really aren't anyone that actually owns an EV that isn't happy with them. Most (all??) that are vehemently arguing against them have never owned one.

This is my view on this thread. Others may have a different perspective

 

[Koolau]

You're correct in that the nearly 7,000 posts are mostly going back and forth over the same topics, but if you really think it's anywhere close to 6,000+ posts extolling the virtues of EVs, then I would say you haven't been paying attention at all... Most of the posts have been discussions (and many times heated discussions) about concerns regarding EVs and their limitations, dangers, fire-risks, range anxiety, and on and on... I know many of these fears are innocently mis-guided or imagined, but they come up over and over and some of us have to continually provide data and personal experience to allay these fears, but they come up again and again. If you read carefully, you will see that there really aren't anyone that actually owns an EV that isn't happy with them. Most (all??) that are vehemently arguing against them have never owned one.

This is my view on this thread. Others may have a different perspective

Perhaps some statistics on the contended issues would be of value. I've never heard of anyone actually running out of battery - but I assume they have. What then? (How often has it happened, was it preventable, etc.) Fires: The videos are impressive, but I've seen ICE cars on the side of the road joyously in flame. How often are EV's involved vs ICE? Heh, heh, how often do we have flat tires? Wait! That happens to both.

 

[ken830]

^^^^^^^


In my situation, and I think in many folks situation, we have no particular dog in the hunt regarding hybrid, plug in hybrid or full EV. We want lower per-mile costs that fit in with our driving requirements. Clearly a hybrid costs less than an EV and since I don't drive a lot, the advantages of an EV may be taken away. I'm just glad we have all the choices.

Yeah.. lowest cost per-mile is where EVs have the strongest advantage. A Tesla Model 3 comes in at 250 Wh/mile. Compare that to the new Toyota Prius Prime which has a 13.6kWh battery and, depending on which trim you get, has 39-44 miles of maximum electric range, which works out to 310-350 Wh/mile. That's like 25-40% more energy used per mile when comparing electric range only... When you consider the efficiency with the gasoline engine operating, it only gets worse... much worse.

On top of that, you get more car with the Model 3. Performance is way better on the Tesla -- acceleration and handling. You get more cargo space. You get more passenger space (front/rear head/leg/shoulder room) and the middle rear seat has no floor hump. You get more convenience features included -- and if you need it, getting the premium data subscription is cheaper on the Tesla than the Toyota. There's less maintenance. And though there's no crash test ratings for the 2023 Prius yet, the 2022 Prius was only good, but not exceptional while Tesla vehicles are practically the safest consumer vehicles ever tested in automotive history.

And then there's the bottom-line price. The Prius Prime MSRP base price ranges from $32-39K. The Model 3 RWD is $40k and Long Range AWD is $47k, but there is the $7,500 tax credit, which brings it perfectly in line with a base price of the Prius line-up. State and local incentives, if available, will bring it down below base price of Prius. And there's virtually no options to add on the Tesla if you're happy with the current included color (today, it's Silver Metallic). And if you find an inventory vehicle near you, a new Model 3 can be had for a few thousand less -- Near me, a brand new Model 3 direct from Tesla is $38.7k before incentives right now. A Model Y only comes in AWD and starts at $47k and after fed tax incentive is comparable in price to the base price of the higher Prius Prime trim.

 

[ken830]

Perhaps some statistics on the contended issues would be of value. I've never heard of anyone actually running out of battery - but I assume they have. What then? (How often has it happened, was it preventable, etc.) Fires: The videos are impressive, but I've seen ICE cars on the side of the road joyously in flame. How often are EV's involved vs ICE? Heh, heh, how often do we have flat tires? Wait! That happens to both.

I think you'd have to pretty blind and deaf to run out of charge.. that or you're in the middle of an apocalypse. Of course, I think it's the same as running out of gas, but people do that everyday, so :shrug:

Fire statistics are helpful to alleviate concerns, and it's been discussed to death in this thread already. There're some straight data, and I think some even tried to compensate for average vehicle age (EVs are newer than total vehicle fleet average). I've way overspent my time budget on this thread for today, so I won't offer to dig up any at this time.

 

[Montecfo]

I do think the traditional hybrid presents an attractive option for many average buyers. And there is a robust used market which gives it a leg up on BEVs.

And on the cost advantage of BEVs, true as far as it goes. Of course the American taxpayer is footing a bill in the trillions to make it possible to harvest cheap fuel costs. So the big picture seems less clear.

 

[Montecfo]

You're correct in that the nearly 7,000 posts are mostly going back and forth over the same topics, but if you really think it's anywhere close to 6,000+ posts extolling the virtues of EVs, then I would say you haven't been paying attention...

That's why I said "mostly" extolling the virtues, which apparently escaped yours. I do not think it is arguable that half the posts are not so described but perhaps even this should be "fact checked" not using facts but with a competing opinion. Since you have already in that same sentence conceded my point that many of the posts made are repetitive, not sure there is any reason to try counting them. It really does not matter.

The greater point that it sounds like we now have some agreement on is that EVs have a set of known limitations which are worth understanding, discussing and educating others on. And they have clear advantages for which the same is true. No consensus at all on your view that such limitations are innocently misguided or imagined as you said.

In fact the evidence is very clear they are real.

 

[ken830]

I do think the traditional hybrid presents an attractive option for many average buyers. And there is a robust used market which gives it a leg up on BEVs.

There is a robust used market for BEVs too. If you're in the market for a used car from the last ~3-5 years or so, there are going to be just as many BEVs to choose from than from traditional hybrids.

Traditional hybrids have been sold in greater volume for a longer period of time, so if someone is looking for older vehicles, then you're right, there are more used traditional hybrids in the >5 year market. But the only benefit of a hybrid is that it's more efficient than a gasoline vehicle that's entirely due to the electric drivetrain. And older vehicles have extremely small batteries, which also means that they have mostly worn out as they approach the 10 year mark, which requires replacement.

And on the cost advantage of BEVs, true as far as it goes. Of course the American taxpayer is footing a bill in the trillions to make it possible to harvest cheap fuel costs. So the big picture seems less clear.

The cost advantage is there even BEFORE the tax incentives. A Model 3, for instance, is NOT comparable to a Prius Prime unless your primary metric for vehicle shopping is "plug-in vehicle." A Model 3 compares nicely with a BMW 3 series, and bests it in performance, space, etc. at a lower cost. Total cost of ownership of a Model 3 approaches that of a Corolla over its life (YMMV, obviously).

Look back a few pages in this thread where I went into the details, but a vast majority of BEVs sold have not had ANY federal tax incentives because most of that was phased out starting in 2018, while most Tesla's sold were after 2018. The current incentives only started this year, and for only some vehicles before April, before it opened up to more.

I've said this before, but I personally feel we should not have any incentives for any vehicles anymore. The old incentives sucked. The new ones sucks too.. it award a huge amount of incentives to hybrid vehicles. We've spent many comments discussing this already though.

 

[ken830]

That's why I said "mostly" extolling the virtues, which apparently escaped yours. I do not think it is arguable that half the posts are not so described but perhaps even this should be "fact checked" not using facts but with a competing opinion. Since you have already in that same sentence conceded my point that many of the posts made are repetitive, not sure there is any reason to try counting them. It really does not matter.

This is the exact quote from your comment:

6000+ posts mostly extolling the virtues of EVs [...]

Okay, even if we take your "mostly" literally and give you the benefit of meaning "just a hair over half" which is something like 3000+ posts, that's still way over estimating it. Your posts, and my response is extremely representative of this thread -- basically what this entire thread is like from almost the very beginning. Just back and forth like this... ad nauseum. It's fun banter sometimes, but it's also tiring. I try to stay away, but whenever I see mis-information or mischaracterization, I feel it is my duty to respond and clarify with facts because there could be innocent lurkers/readers here that would be swayed away from buying an EV if I let it go uncorrected... I have no personal gain other than I love EVs and I think most people will too, so they shouldn't be dissuaded from owning one just because of some misinformation here.

The greater point that it sounds like we now have some agreement on is that EVs have a set of known limitations which are worth understanding, discussing and educating others on. And they have clear advantages for which the same is true. No consensus at all on your view that such limitations are innocently misguided or imagined as you said.

In fact the evidence is very clear they are real.

Not sure who made you the judge and jury on what consensus is. Again, I typed a LONG comment on this exact thing just a few pages ago. It's an important distinction between a limitation, which is inherent to the product, and a compromise, which is something that is given up when choosing among several options. Everything has a set of limitations. EVs too. But they have little to no compromises compared to a gasoline vehicle or a hybrid vehicle for most people. Choosing an EV over a gasoline or hybrid vehicle generally gets you better performance, better efficiency, lower fuel costs, lower maintenance, quieter ride, better safety, more passenger room, more cargo room, etc.. The most likely possible compromise would be refueling for those that don't have a place to charge at home. But that's only less convenient compared to a gasoline vehicle today due to the gas station infrastructure we have in place now. When that infrastructure begins to go away, it's going to be more hassle to refuel a gasoline vehicle than to charge an EV. For those that do have a place to charge at home, it's way more convenient to refuel an EV than it is a gasoline vehicle.

We've probably gone over every iteration of every possible "limitation" or "compromise" several times over in this thread, but if you do have a list, let's go through it again. Maybe there is something.

 

[Koolau]

And older vehicles have extremely small batteries, which also means that they have mostly worn out as they approach the 10 year mark, which requires replacement.

Do you have any citations for this contention? I've not heard of HEVs being particularly hard on their batteries and requiring battery replacement. If you have a citation, I would be interested. I'm thinking HEV would be my sweet spot since I can't charge. A Prius, for instance, would double the mileage I get on my ICE RAV 4.

 

[eytonxav]

Heard the UAW is now pushing back on accelerated rollout of EVs as they realize they may lose jobs as a result, since ICEs require more labor to built. Also companies like Volvo and VW are claiming the carbon reduction benefits of EVs have a breakeven point of something like 70K miles before the EV saves on carbon emissions. For many drivers that can be 7 years or more. I wonder if Toyota knows something.

 

[Koolau]

Heard the UAW is now pushing back on accelerated rollout of EVs as they realize they may lose jobs as a result, since ICEs require more labor to built. Also companies like Volvo and VW are claiming the carbon reduction benefits of EVs have a breakeven point of something like 70K miles before the EV saves on carbon emissions. For many drivers that can be 7 years or more. I wonder if Toyota knows something.

In my best Claude Rains voice: "I'm shocked. SHOCKED that the UAW has finally spoken on the EV subject." Heh, heh, they finally figured it out. EVs are not only more efficient, but so is building them more efficient (fewer union hours to bill.)

 

[ken830]

Do you have any citations for this contention? I've not heard of HEVs being particularly hard on their batteries and requiring battery replacement. If you have a citation, I would be interested. I'm thinking HEV would be my sweet spot since I can't charge. A Prius, for instance, would double the mileage I get on my ICE RAV 4.

No, I don't have in-depth, 1st-hand experience with this. I only have two friends who have older Priuses (Prii?)... one decided to replace the battery. The other left it alone, but lives with worse efficiency (lower MPG). This was a few years ago.

Looking into this some more, it seems new Prius (2020 on) gets 10year/150kmile warranty on the battery, while the older ones that we're talking about here get 8yr/100k mile warranty. I wasn't able to find any definitive data sources on hybrid battery life, just a lot of click-bait type "articles" with no reliable data behind them. The impression I'm getting on most of forums is 8-10 years 100+k miles before considering battery replacement. I would say 200k miles, you'd probably need new batteries, up to 150k, you're probably okay...

Depending on where you live, if you're considering a Prius, you may need to make sure you're not parking it outside because catalytic converter theft has been getting out of hand in many parts of the country. Priuses are especially attractive to thieves because Toyota made it easy to get to and hybrid vehicles have cleaner cats in general due to lower usage relative to non-hybrid vehicles. Replacing a catalytic converter is in the same ballpark as battery replacement costs.

 

[Koolau]

No, I don't have in-depth, 1st-hand experience with this. I only have two friends who have older Priuses (Prii?)... one decided to replace the battery. The other left it alone, but lives with worse efficiency (lower MPG). This was a few years ago.

Looking into this some more, it seems new Prius (2020 on) gets 10year/150kmile warranty on the battery, while the older ones that we're talking about here get 8yr/100k mile warranty. I wasn't able to find any definitive data sources on hybrid battery life, just a lot of click-bait type "articles" with no reliable data behind them. The impression I'm getting on most of forums is 8-10 years 100+k miles before considering battery replacement. I would say 200k miles, you'd probably need new batteries, up to 150k, you're probably okay...

Depending on where you live, if you're considering a Prius, you may need to make sure you're not parking it outside because catalytic converter theft has been getting out of hand in many parts of the country. Priuses are especially attractive to thieves because Toyota made it easy to get to and hybrid vehicles have cleaner cats in general due to lower usage relative to non-hybrid vehicles. Replacing a catalytic converter is in the same ballpark as battery replacement costs.

Thanks for the info.

We too have had a rash of catalytic converter thefts here in the Islands. I think there was a ring doing much of it. New laws up the penalties and require buyers to get extensive info from sellers. No more "Hey, 60 CC's! Cool. Here's your cash." at the recycler.

We park most of the time in a parking structure with lots of cameras and night time gate. Of course, a committed burger would only consider it a challenge, but might just go elsewhere. We've had relatively little theft.

 

[ken830]

Heard the UAW is now pushing back on accelerated rollout of EVs as they realize they may lose jobs as a result, since ICEs require more labor to built. Also companies like Volvo and VW are claiming the carbon reduction benefits of EVs have a breakeven point of something like 70K miles before the EV saves on carbon emissions. For many drivers that can be 7 years or more. I wonder if Toyota knows something.

At first glance, 70k miles is hard for me to believe. Volvo and VW have their sources; Tesla has theirs, I guess. But maybe they're not too far off if their vehicle efficiency is much worse than Tesla (which is true) and they need much larger batteries (and equally more energy during lifetime operation) to provide the driver the same amount of range. Add in their less-efficient manufacturing process, and I can see their lifetime emissions number being higher than that of Tesla's numbers. They probably also have very different assumptions on what an equivalent ICE vehicle is. Add in a bit of rounding and, and yeah.. I can believe it. For reference, again, according to Tesla's Impact Report, page 22, 149, the CO₂e "payback" period is only 2 years. The data and assumptions are described in more detail starting on page 31. But the entire report is fascinating to read.

In my best Claude Rains voice: "I'm shocked. SHOCKED that the UAW has finally spoken on the EV subject." Heh, heh, they finally figured it out. EVs are not only more efficient, but so is building them more efficient (fewer union hours to bill.)

The UAW has been against EVs from the very beginning (and rightly so -- or wrongly so??) because it threatens their existence. The threat is not EVs themselves, but mainly because of Tesla.

Many pages back, we talked about the rampant levels of corruption in UAW.

 

[Aerides]

I drove my first Tesla by surprise this weekend as it was the only car type available at Hertz in their club thing. I had reserved a small SUV but was told there was a wait. I guess the tesla is an upgrade but I really didn't want to try a new car in a new town. Oh well.

I could really have used a quick checklist of stuff to know.

Like...adjusting the side view mirrors is something under the control panel on the console. I never did find it. It wasn't "Mirrors" but "controls>mirrors" or something. I also wasn't comfortable looking at the center panel for stuff I'm used to having in front of me, so luckily my sister was in charge of it for nav, AC changes (just gimme a dial to turn...) etc.

Fun fact, when she put in the directions for the Aquarium we were half way to the wrong one before I realized - I didn't have geographical bearings to know intuitively I was going the wrong way and only after thinking it was taking too long did I look over to see we were going NE instead of SE. For 20 minutes... at least we didn't waste gas! And who knew there two aquariums in Atlanta!

The first time I stopped the car to get out, I didn't know how to turn it off or lock it. We were in an underground parking lot and couldn't even get signal to google lol. (apparently you can wave the key card on the outside of the door, which locks/turns off, or just walk far enough away). I was also extremely ready to find a restroom at this point so I just had to leave, find one, and then come back and figure out if the car was off/locked. Fun stuff.

(The hotel valet dude was more helpful than the hertz folks.)

The wand to move from R/N/D has a button on the end for Park, but the display says P/R/N/D so I'd normally think ok you keep moving it up you'll get in park. I never did get the hang of how long to pull or push it to go from R to N to D and often had to tap it a few times to get it to budge, or tap it once and it moved two spots. At one point I was in D, but stopped, and had to get into R in a hurry, to get out of the way of something big, and it was a moment.

No-coasting. If your foot is off the gas the car is gonna stop. This took me a good day to get used to. This would be the main thing to know before getting in one I think.

But it was nice not to think about gas. Our hotel had plenty of chargers and the valet always plugged it back in when we returned. It was a nice car, drove well, but not a good idea for a rental, for me, in an unfamiliar area.

 

[ken830]

Thanks for the info.

We too have had a rash of catalytic converter thefts here in the Islands. I think there was a ring doing much of it. New laws up the penalties and require buyers to get extensive info from sellers. No more "Hey, 60 CC's! Cool. Here's your cash." at the recycler.

We park most of the time in a parking structure with lots of cameras and night time gate. Of course, a committed burger would only consider it a challenge, but might just go elsewhere. We've had relatively little theft.

Yeah.. it's organized crime, I think. People around here have been killed when confronting catalytic converter thieves! It's infuriating not just because it costs the victim a ton of money and time, but also because catalytic converters are so effective, it's an environmental and public health hazard driving even a little bit without a cat. I also hate those idiots that run catless exhaust just to get 10hp more on their stupid street cars. High-performance EVs for the masses will someday bring an end to all of that.